Korg Forums

[Reuben]

Here's an interesting thing I've just discovered - and probably someone has figured this out previously - but it seems it is possible to use STS's to switch organ effects like rotary speed slow to fast and keep the sound going (no stop/start).
This is how I set it up (can be in Performance or Songbook).
Load say Drawbars Slow V. to Upper 1 at volume 120 and load Drawbars Fast V. to Upper 2 at volume 0 (but not muted). Write to STS 1.
Now change the volume of Upper 1 to 0 (again not muted) and change volume of Upper 2 to 120. Write to STS 2.
Now you can hold down a chord and fairly seamlessly change the Slow to Fast and Fast to Slow with the STS 1 & 2.
This is not so earth-shattering in itself but it does mean that you could use the same trick to have control of all the switching of effects in all of the V organs.
For instance the B3 Rock 1 V. organ switches the first 4 oscillators to a different sound at vel 95. You could make two versions of this organ in Sound mode. The first one with the velocity switching on Osc 1 to 4 at 127 (see Menu, Basic, Osc Basic, Vel SW L-H) and the second version where they switch at 1.
If you set them up as in the example above you would have complete control over the switching with the STS's.
Edit: I've just tried it on the BX3 Rock 1 V organ and it works as expected.
So one Sound I've called BX3 Rock 1A and the second BX3 Rock 1B.
Edit 2: With the setup I've mentioned above it is also possible to cross-fade between the two (slow to fast and fast to slow). Just start with your Upper 1 slider at max and the Upper 2 slider at minimum. With notes played and the pedal down just swap the sliders to opposite positions. Seems to work pretty well.
Obviously we are not getting a gradual increase in rotor speed this way but it is not too bad a compromise.
By doing it this way you don't even need the second STS so only one is taken up.

[karmathanever]

GREAT tip John - thanks.
I am a dedicated hater of Korg's "V" organs - I actually edited many of the SOUNDs and simply removed the "fast Leslie" oscillators and change the velocities to 0-127. Of course that meant I had no fast Leslie effect but that was 100% better than the velocity switching.

Your tip make so much more sense - can't wait to set it up.

Cheers

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dikikeys]

Not 100% sure (don't have one here to try out at the moment), but I would have thought that you could task the pitch strip in 'latch' mode to do a cross switch between the fast and slow samples as well...

Unfortunately, because the joystick is center sprung (and there are no Minimoog type wheels with the mod wheel being unsprung) you can't use that, but it strikes me that the strip could be used in this fashion.

Anyone tried this?

[karmathanever]

[pippuzzo]

Hi,

I did this in the past, no using STS but performances, just to have them always available.

These V. versions really hurt me, so I needed to find a solution, since the virtual emulation and its own leslie are not that much (but can handle the slow/fast speed change).
The sampled versions are more realistic, but you can't get the speed change.
And also you cannot, or at least I wasn't able for the sampled versions, to handle any crossfade between fast and slow just using a joystick or a assignable switch.

For this reason I created both sampled versions removing the velocity switch and a the other one using the virtual organ+Leslie FX to have speed change when needed.
Not perfect but an acceptable compromise, waiting for a virtual emulator (BX3?) finally closing the issue ...

Cheers.

[Dikikeys]

I must admit, neither Hammond system works that well for me... The sampled Hammond's sound moderately acceptable if you play one note at a time (and take off any velocity sensitivity and use a swell pedal), but the minute you play a chord, and there are all these different sampled Leslie's all running at different speeds and phases, the illusion is completely gone!

But Korg's 'virtual drawbar' mode is also, although I feel it IS better, isn't really on a par with even Korg's own CX-3 standards, let alone competing with Nord's or Roland's B3 emulations. You do at least get proper percussion behavior, and the Leslie ramping up and down (which to me is the most important thing it does! A well placed ramp up can turn a boring organ part into something sublime!), and a far greater choice of footages, but it lacks a bit of 'grit', IMHO. But still better than the sampled ones, again IMO.

It is certainly a shame that Korg have a pretty decent B3 sim in their bag of tricks, but can't bring it yet to the arranger line. Roland have brought their TOTL B3 sim code, and grafted it in virtually complete into the BK-9. I never thought the G70's B3 sim got it quite right, and it lacked almost any editing ability (like changing distortion or chorus/vibrato or percussion parameters) but the B3 sim in the BK-9 is almost a complete clone of their TOTL Hammond sim. It can certainly give a good run for its money to even Nord's, let alone any other arranger organ sim..!

Here's another place that Korg, without any major R&D, could seriously up the value of the PA series. They already have the CX-3 code in the Kronos, so the porting work has been done. It's time to inject it into the arranger series, particularly as how important many arranger players feel the organ sound is (many having come from organs in the first place).

I also feel it is long past due that an integrated set of OS parameters to allow you to easily add a 'dumb' second MIDI keyboard to the PA3X to act as the elusive second manual from the organ days. If Korg built it, and designed it to slot underneath the main keyboard in as close an alignment as organ manuals were (being able to easily, comfortable switch quickly between manuals was part of the allure of the organ) it would be the ultimate organ replacement.

As the second keyboard would need little more than a lightweight set of keys and a MIDI out, it would add very little to the weight we have to carry around if gigging (many dumb 61's are well under 10 lbs). Who couldn't use something like this if it were affordable, and the OS integration was already worked out?

But until the Korg steps up its B3 sim, organ players are going to hold the PA3X as an 'also ran'...

[karmathanever]

+1

I still rate the Roland VR09 above the Kronos-CX3, BUT the CX-3 is good - I use it as a prime sound in my blues band!!!!


_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Reuben]

With the setup I've mentioned above it is possible to cross-fade between the two (slow to fast and fast to slow). Just start with your Upper 1 slider at max and the Upper 2 slider at minimum. With notes played and the pedal down just swap the sliders to opposite positions. Seems to work pretty well.
Obviously we are not getting a gradual increase in rotor speed this way but it is not too bad a compromise.
By doing it this way you don't even need the second STS so only one is taken up.
If you are not confident with sound editing then you can try this with the Drawbars Slow and Drawbars Fast from page 3 of the factory organs.
Cheers,
John

[Dikikeys]

[karmathanever]

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear friends,

talking about Leslie effect, I casually discovered something that totally changed my disappointment about Pa3X Leslie effect.

I fully agree that there is nothing more fake than the "V" system, that Korg seems to be crazy about. I played for years an L122R Hammond with Leslie cabinet and cannot even lissen to "V" sounds.


So, let's talk only about the effect to apply to regular sts/performance, that do not have the "V" feature. We talk, instead, about any flat organ sound with rotary effect.

I found out that mostly the leslie effect applied to flat organ sound by the factory, identified with "Y" (joystick action to switch from slow to fast), is the effect 63 Rotary Speaker, that is really aweek, almost a vibrato, nothing to do with the drammatic impact of a real Leslie.


BUT I also found out that on some sound the factory applied ANOTHER Leslie effect: 133 ROTARY SPEAKEROD (Overdrive Leslie).
This is much better and closer to a real Leslie, specially on fast speed.

Then, I made a few tests, simply changing from effect 63 to effect 133: fantastic!

Let's make an example with Digital Drawbars (any drawbars set up; drawbars only). Change from effect 63 to 133, and play the new sound. Move from fast to slow and from slow to fast: you really feel the acceleration.
While the effect is in fast mode, start with drawbars at 8888, then open also the highest drawbars, with different shapes.
Try also, with an aggressive drawbars set, to perform palm glissando.
And other....

Of course the real Leslie effect is better emulated if you can help the espression with an expression pedal (Korg Exp-2, or others).

Hope it can be of some interest.

In any case, I wish Korg in a next keyboard would implement hardware and software of the beautifull Leslie emulator Neo Instruments Ventilator 2 (check on YouTube for demo), or something of the same high level of emulation.

Ciao

Angelo

[MadrasGiaguari]

Sorry: I posted twice by mistake! (Italians.....)

EDITED (admin): All fixed - it's just the amazing excitement one gets when on these forums eh

[karmathanever]

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear Pete,

one more nice think about using Drawbars and effect 133:

while the display is on the drawbars window, not only you have slow/fast (Leslie), but also Rotor ON/Brake. Try to play with Brake (no effects at all), and then little after, when your feeling is customized to the flat sound, swith ON, and your sensitivity will be delighted by the long acceleretio, moving from flat to Leslie.

By the way, I would think that Korg would put the two effects (33 and the OverDrive variation) aside (33 and 34), and not in so far positions, that makes difficult to realize that there is a second (and much better) Leslie effect.

Ciao

Angelo

[Dikikeys]