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sauce
Approved Merchant
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Location: ABQ, NM USA
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 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:23 am Post subject: Sauce video comparison: ESX vs Electribe Sampler ES2 |
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The forthcoming Korg Electribe Sampler has me thinking.. Here is a breakdown of the features of both units, the shortcomings and the advantages of each. Finally, I sampled a bit of Mistabishi's latest liveset using the Korg ES2 and I demonstrated the features the ESX has that the ES2 can only dream of.. Enjoy! =)
https://youtu.be/D-EAczyZ-Ak
PS.. The live demonstration starts at 4:33.
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Hugo
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Hey sauce, thanks for a GREAT rundown and most excellent performance! You inspired me to fire up my ESX and also gave me a couple of ideas I hadn't thought about before. Great stuff, man!  |
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1_inch_punch
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 314
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent rundown.
Great to see some balance in this forum. The hype has been excruciating.
☺️ |
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dutchcow
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2014
Posts: 404
Location: Mansfield, UK
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Very insightful demonstration. Thanks for making this! I really hope Korg will add a shift option to control a 2nd parameter for IFX.
Having just one non-selectable parameter for IFX is such a downer. At least let us choose what parameter we can edit. It's useless to have delay when you can only control the time and not the feedback.
Micro editing motion sequencing is pretty awesome. The editable midi resolution should be higher too, internally it is pretty high. |
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circuitghost
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| This actually made me cancel my preorder on the ES2. I got my sights set on an ESX now. |
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roblabs
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1396
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Im debating between the esx and the es2. Want to wait and see what the es2 can offer...
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sauce
Approved Merchant
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Location: ABQ, NM USA
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the support everyone; I really appreciate it. =)
| roblabs wrote: | | (I) Want to wait and see what the es2 can offer... |
That makes two of us.. I am really looking forward to working with the new unit, and am in no way writing it off. At the very least it will serve as a great-sounding addendum to my live setup, even if it can't function as the main sampling unit, which has yet to be determined. I am also confident that I will be able to develop out-of-the-box, unconventional ways of working with it, and will be able to find some sweet "Easter eggs". I will document everything, of course, and keep everybody posted.
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circuitghost
Full Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hey sauce, given that you know the ESX so well, I wonder if you can help me out with something I'm considering.
I've got an Analog Rytm and I think we talked about this in another thread, that I'm looking for a companion to the Rytm. But really, if possible, I'd just go for one instrument. In terms of spec and feature, the ESX ticks all my boxes. It has enough tracks in one pattern, it can time stretch (two loops, right?), it can sample and it has enough going for it to process the sound that you can tweak it with filters, amps, fx and stuff to make something out of the samples.
While I'm pretty sure it doesn't sound better than the Rytm, though, once something becomes a mix, it's the whole that counts, not necessarily specific features.
How would you say it ranks to the Rytm in terms of audio quality? Or just on its own? I hear people saying you can't make pro recordings on it, yet I'm hearing tracks made entirely on the ESX that just sounds f*****g great. I don't care about 24-bit 48khz laser mega super quality. A little filth won't hurt. Good tracks come across without all that clean production stuff.
So could the ESX be that one trick pony, given that it really holds its own in features, in terms of what I'm looking for? |
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sauce
Approved Merchant
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Location: ABQ, NM USA
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| circuitghost wrote: | | Hey sauce.. ..could the ESX be that one trick pony, given that it really holds its own in features, in terms of what I'm looking for? |
I will break this down as honestly as possible. I will preface by saying that I currently have a love/hate relationship with the ESX. Since 2004 I have repeatedly used it, sold it and purchased it.. I get soooo sick of it, yet it does too many things too well for me to forsake it completely. Now that the resale value has gone back up I am also afraid it will reach a price point that no longer justifies a purchase, so I think I will always have a couple laying around from now on.. if only because they are so much fun to use. That said, let me answer a few of your questions..
| circuitghost wrote: | | ..it can time stretch (two loops, right?) |
Correct. The time-stretching is very useful, but has limitations. First is the quality of the stretch.. If you are comfortable hearing the Prodigy-style timestretch of the late-nineties, then this box is for you. If you are looking for Ableton's "Complex Pro" setting on its warp engine, the ESX doesn't even come close. One thing that I have done to overcome the graininess of the stretch is to *actually use* Ableton's warp engine to stretch the sample to the correct BPM and set the pitch prior to loading. Which leads me to the pitch..
It is very difficult to transpose pitch on an ESX-stretched sample. The pitch knob in the middle is original pitch. All the way up is two octaves high; all the way down is two octaves low. 39 increments up is one octave; 40 increments down is one octave, and this is where it gets weird.. One semitone up or down is 3.25 increments, which is impossible without adjusting the modulation settings for pitch. It's tricky but it can be done on the fly. Of course, if you are not doing everything on the fly you can actually correct the pitch in the Sample Edit menu.
| circuitghost wrote: | | ..it can sample and it has enough going for it to process the sound that you can tweak it with filters, amps, fx and stuff to make something out of the samples. |
Absolutely, in many unique ways that other units, even the Octatrack, cannot. I am in no way saying the Octa is inferior to the ESX; I am saying that the ESX is quite unique in many respects. One thing it excels at is intuitive, creative immediacy.
| circuitghost wrote: | | How would you say it ranks to the Rytm in terms of audio quality? Or just on its own? I hear people saying you can't make pro recordings on it, yet I'm hearing tracks made entirely on the ESX that just sounds f*****g great. I don't care about 24-bit 48khz laser mega super quality. A little filth won't hurt. Good tracks come across without all that clean production stuff. |
The ESX doesn't sound "bad" per say.. It just has this "color" that you can't get rid of. Many users complain about the "noise floor" or the "hiss". I find these complaints ridiculous.. I used to sample with Roland S-10's and Ensoniq Mirage's and Korg DSS-1's the ESX sounds at least as good as these. Also, I have owned a lot of classic synthesizers and modulars that needed constant upkeep and tuning. Some of my favorite synths couldn't be used in a recording without a gate, and I have never felt the need to use a gate on the ESX. Now, this "color" I speak of, and the noise that other users complain about; I am pretty sure it's there because of those stupid tooobs. Tubes on low-power devices are a gimmick and there is no way around that. I suspect that doing the "tube-bypass" mod will vastly improve the sound quality of the machine.
The effects on the ESX leave a lot to be desired, but the effects that are useable are amazing to work with. 8/10 of my patterns have the exact same effects chain; 1. Compressor, which is mostly worthless but amazing on my snare drums to make them punch, punch.. 2. Flanger/Chorus. I love sending basslines here on-the-fly, chaining the FX on-the-fly to send the snares here, pretty much everything. The freq on the slow settings really bends and warps things and I love it. 3. The BPM-Sync Delay. I like the Mod Delay as well, but it's a ping-pong delay and it's not typically good to have wide stereo fields when playing live, as most people in a venue will not be able to hear the entire width. Honorable mention in the FX are Decimator and Phaser. The Decimator is super effective and easy to mangle and sounds great; the Phaser is good for adding quick, Shpongle-esque "wiggles". When used, these usually take the No 2. spot on the chain, replacing the Flanger.
That being said, there are lots of things you can do to improve the sound quality. First, process samples appropriately before loading them.. I usually use Ableton Live to prepare sample sets (don't forget to render to mono for most samples, to save space and headaches). I often EQ out some middle frequencies in loops, for instance, to keep different bands from fighting for space. Lastly, every sample gets a bit of compression or limiting prior to render, to add a bit of punch. Another thing you can do is run the final mix into a hardware limiter/maximizer when playing live. This way you can boost subs and get top notes crispy and compete sonically with DJ's who are playing mastered tracks. I use a TC Finalizer for this and it works magic.
| circuitghost wrote: | | So could the ESX be that one trick pony, given that it really holds its own in features, in terms of what I'm looking for? |
To be honest, I don't know if it can take that spot, but the chances of falling in love with it are high. I will go out on a limb and say that in nearly 30 years of collecting and using electronic instruments I have *never* found a device that combines this much performance for this low, low price. Just saying. There are a lot of limitations; sample-time, monophonic, sound-quality issues, but my final advice is.. You may as well go for it. The unit is not terribly expensive, the value is rising and they are easy to sell. Whatever you choose to do, be blessed.. and good luck. =)
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circuitghost
Full Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sauce,
Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply. I am very grateful. Thank god for people like you.
Once I find an ESX for a reasonable price, I'll buy one.
Sometimes, I toy with the idea of throwing out all my gear and just using an EMX and ESX. There's something beatiful in that constellation, so much you can do. |
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