Korg Forums

[electribeking]

From my finding it seems, the Emx-1 Korg Electribe is a Analog Machine. Built upon DSP Technology. An Analog Modeling signal first then to a ADC and back to DAC. Agreed? .Thanks Aphiux

[electribeking]

Digital signal processing (DSP) is the mathematical manipulation of an information signal to modify or improve it in some way. It is characterized by the representation of discrete time, discrete frequency, or other discrete domain signals by a sequence of numbers or symbols and the processing of these signals.

The goal of DSP is usually to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals. Usually, the first step is conversion of the signal from an analog to a digital form, by sampling and then digitizing it using an analog-to-digital converter (ADC), which turns the analog signal into a stream of discrete digital values. Often, however, the required output signal is also analog, which requires a digital-to-analog converter (DAC). Even if this process is more complex than analog processing and has a discrete value range, the application of computational power to signal processing allows for many advantages over analog processing in many applications, such as error detection and correction in transmission as well as data compression.[1]

[OpAmp]

Hi,

I don't know where you got the info about the EMX1, but your statement in the first post is not really correct.

The EMX1 is a VIRTUAL analog machine, mimicking analog gear using DSP software techniques.

I.e. the waveforms are generated/modelled/modulated in firmware (software) (No ADC involved). Then they go to a DAC because we humans need analog signals in our ear. After the DAC the analog signal is routed to the valve which can add analog saturation and distortion (warmth). I agree that the last stage is pure analog, but the core of the EMX is definitely digital.

Oh yes, there is an ADC as well, when you want to use the line in or a mic as oscillator, audio through and bpm detection. But it is not needed as such to get some sound out of this beast.

Bye.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G

[electribeking]

So i did a little more researching on my Korg Emx-1 Electribe, it's actually a hybrid analog device that uses dsp(digitalsignalprocessing) technology.It uses ADC and back to DAC. So during that transition the sine wave loses its continous flow through that process. Any device i've learned that has a micro processor or signal processor, loses its original flow /current during that process.. I guess the journey continues in sound, but those damn Analog synths are pricey..and vintage..

[electribeking]

It's not virtual..that's computer's..

[electribeking]

So what do you think the bit rate is one the emx-1?

[OpAmp]

No, trust me. It is not hybrid. Hybrid is typically a full analog sound path and controls in the path (e.g. the cutoff of the filter is done digitally). Apart from the last stage, the valve, it is fully digital/dsp.
There is no ADC involved, because there are no analog oscillators in the box. Algorithms can also generate sine waves.

And these algorithms can also generate discontinuities if you want that in your sine wave. Although I think you might confuse the discontinuity with the quantization noise that occurs due to sampling of an analog signal by an ADC.

Look in the manual. The EMX1 uses the MMT engine. This stands for multiple modelling technology. Modelling is the key word here...

So it si virtual analog. It is not analog, but sounds analog. And a DSP processor, is just a special version of a regular processor in a computer. So if you want, you can see the EMX as a computer but with a rather strange keyboard...

Bitrate is a guess of me based on specs of other MMT engine devices. It will be 44100 or 48000Hz, using samples of at least 16 bit.

Bye
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G

[OpAmp]

Look also here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzF800vHTFc

The guy opens up an EMX. The main PCB is showing only one big chip as the heart of the box. Digital IC!

Bye.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G

[electribeking]

I would never,,ever put the Emx-1 in the same sentence as a computer..lol..NO WAY!! U know what the bit rate of the emx-1 is??

[electribeking]

And the dsp..from what read, does go adc to dac..thats it purpose?

[OpAmp]

See my previous posts. It is going to be 44100 or 48000 Hz. I bet it is the last one. Other MMT engines had officially 48kHz in the spec.

It seems you still stick to the idea that EMX is analog or hybrid... Well, seems strange than that the electribes are put under the 'Korg Virtual Analog (Modeling)' group, don't you think so?

I don't know how you do your research...

The scheme ADC -> DSP -> DAC is indeed the classical one but not limited to this. DSP is a technique/methodology, which is very much possible by specific processors, which are called DSPs. These have specific instructions/HW on board to do the number crunching in HW which is needed for DSP. And yes, the thing needs some input to process it to output. There you have the ADC and DAC around the corner, but that is not necessarily needed. Some examples:

ADC -> DSP -> DAC: modelling guitar amplifier. The guitar is input, the speaker is ouput. Both are analog and need to be interfaced by the DSP. Hence ADC and DAC.

ADC -> DSP: a digital oscilloscope to measure electronic devices. The measure probe is input (analog) and is sampled by the ADC. The DSP can do filtering, noise reduction, FFT, ... and display it on a screen. So no DAC.

DSP -> DAC: MP3 player. The input is a stream of bytes coming e.g. from a flash and processed (decompression) and then send to speakers, passing by the DAC. Ok. Regular processors these days get fast enough that a DSP is not needed anymore for this.

Just a DSP. Once upon a time, the graphical CPUs (DSP!) of graphic cards of a computer were reused by software on the main CPU to do a lot of number crunching task (for speed reasons). (Think about Bitcoin mining). So there was no ADC/DAC involved in that case for the task that the DSP had to do. (Although to display things on a VGA cable, the graphic cards do have a ramDAC.)

So it is not black/white. And the EMX is falling largely in the DSP->DAC case. So not analog at all. A simple sine look up table and a phase accumulator is sufficient to have a first rough virtual analog sine oscillator.

Bye.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G

[OpAmp]

Ok, I missed your question on the bit rate, and did not understand why you came back on it as I already gave sample rate and samplesize. But bitrate is a irrelevant number in this context, as we are not talking about compressed audio. So everyone talks about sample rate and sample size.

But here you go: suppose 48kHz samples of 24 bit and stereo, it gives a rate of 2.304Mbps. And that is between the DSP and the DAC

Have fun.
_________________
microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G

[KrisForester]

Actually the Digital signal processing is the mathematical manipulation of an information signal to modify or improve it in some way.
It is characterized by the representation of discrete time, discrete frequency, or other discrete domain signals by a sequence of numbers or symbols and the processing of these signals.
It is used to measure, filter and/or compress continuous real-world analog signals.
_________________
printed circuit board

[SanderXpander]

I appreciate your desire to elaborate on the term DSP, but it kinda confuses the issue. The EMX1 is definitely virtual analog, I don't know why the OP pretends that "virtual analog" is for computers (PCs and Macs I guess?) only, or why he pretends that the EMX1 is not in essence a computer. There are many virtual analog synths on the market. The Nord Lead series, the Virus series, Korgs own KingKorg and MicroKorg series, to name just a handful.

[electribeking]

So do you have the facts the the emx-1 is 24 bit depth?? i know standard rates r 16, 24, 32, 32 mostly on computers..So the emx-1.. produce sound quality of 24 bit?? Thanks mike
any links?