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Diminished SST performance still unresolved in 3.03
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chini
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Diminished SST performance still unresolved in 3.03 Reply with quote

Well its been 8 months since version 3 was released and 8 months since I spoke to a Korg techy in the UK about this issue which unfortunately has still not been resolved with this latest update. The elimination of the "all sounds off" message is welcome but it is obviously not the culprit to this anomily which has rendered a few key combie patch changes unusable in my live set ever since I took the plunge as did many others with version 3. Generally the Kronos "hiccups" a lot even cutting off rhythm tracks that one patch changes to after a split second they have been key triggered!

I for one have written at length on this forum about the issue. In my mind it is far much more important to address the bugs before offering "added features".

If I could go back to OS2 with all the programming I have had to do in the last 8 months I would but apparently reverting back to OS2 will render all my hard work unreadable!!!

It is a real shame because I love this instrument! and it forms the basis of my live rig on stage. I just wish they had never offered us the added features in the original OS3 if it meant sacrificing performance: which it so obviously has!
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Diminished SST performance still unresolved in 3.03 Reply with quote

chini wrote:
Well its been 8 months since version 3 was released and 8 months since I spoke to a Korg techy in the UK about this issue which unfortunately has still not been resolved with this latest update. The elimination of the "all sounds off" message is welcome but it is obviously not the culprit to this anomily which has rendered a few key combie patch changes unusable in my live set ever since I took the plunge as did many others with version 3. Generally the Kronos "hiccups" a lot even cutting off rhythm tracks that one patch changes to after a split second they have been key triggered!



Sounds like you have good communication with a Korg tech in the UK. My suggestion is to circle back with her/him and share your custom combis .
Have them put them into a set list to see what gives.

Once the Korg tech duplicates the issue , maybe they can do some slight programming which will alleviate most of the issues.
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chini
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Diminished SST performance still unresolved in 3.03 Reply with quote

[/quote]

Sounds like you have good communication with a Korg tech in the UK. My suggestion is to circle back with her/him and share your custom combis .
Have them put them into a set list to see what gives.

Once the Korg tech duplicates the issue , maybe they can do some slight programming which will alleviate most of the issues.[/quote]


Hi Greg!

I have actually been through all this with Korg back in december and they are well aware the problem exists! Unfortunately in my case as my combie patches are very complex in the first place it is not a simple case of them duplicating the patches to test the problem because they have to be physically played/triggered in the same way I do on stage to force the Kronos to misbehave, at least on one particular patch change that was flawless in OS2. It's obvious that OS3 brought with it some "hiccups" in performance which has also been expressed by many others on this forum.

On a more optimistic note I have just heard from another Korg rep that they are still addressing the problem and are aiming to release a further update towards october to alleviate it. My guess is they released this version to show willing of their intentions to iron out all the bugs even if it is going to take a few further updates!

As some have mentioned before it is a marvel in this day and age that a product over 4 years old is still being supported! Having said this Korg must realise they introduced a real classic in the Kronos and as such I expect the updates to continue for quite some time.

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Hal2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chini,
Sorry to hear that STS is still a problem. I stopped upgrading my Kronos after loading 2.0.6. At that point I felt everything was working perfectly on the board for me and I had created a large number of programs and custom combis that became essential to my song creations. At that point I became afraid of upgrading for fear that my custom sounds could become corrupted or that something else on board might become compromised. I envied some of the great additions (e.g. organ sounds) and improvements (setlist color customization etc) that came with subsequent updates but I felt it was not worth the risk especially when I started reading about new SST issues. Aside from the great Kronos sound engines, the SST feature was top priority in my particular decision to buy the Kronos. If I lost that, based on my composing/playing style, it would make some of my live sound changes impossible. The three questions I have now related to your issues are:
1. Which generation Kronos Keyboard do you have?
2. Does the new Kronos 2 Keyboard come with ver 3 software and is its SST working as it is supposed to?
3. What was the last version of Kronos OS update that had a normal fully functioning SST? Was there still a good SST after my OS 2.0.6?
Thanks. I'll be following this thread to find out when SST is perfect again.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hal2001 wrote:

2. Does the new Kronos 2 Keyboard come with ver 3 software and is its SST working as it is supposed to?
3. What was the last version of Kronos OS update that had a normal fully functioning SST? Was there still a good SST after my OS 2.0.6?
Thanks. I'll be following this thread to find out when SST is perfect again.


Not to diminish this point, but SST is still working just as it always has done.

The issue is that some things are slightly more computationally expensive in 3.0, and that means that very CPU-heavy sounds (lots and lots of layers, for instance) hit the limits of SST a little earlier than they did before. This would only be noticed by users of older Kronos models who update to 3.0. I'm sorry for those who have encountered this issue, and I sincerely hope that it can be addressed - though as usual I can make no guarantees.
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chini
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
Hal2001 wrote:

2. Does the new Kronos 2 Keyboard come with ver 3 software and is its SST working as it is supposed to?
3. What was the last version of Kronos OS update that had a normal fully functioning SST? Was there still a good SST after my OS 2.0.6?
Thanks. I'll be following this thread to find out when SST is perfect again.


Not to diminish this point, but SST is still working just as it always has done.

The issue is that some things are slightly more computationally expensive in 3.0, and that means that very CPU-heavy sounds (lots and lots of layers, for instance) hit the limits of SST a little earlier than they did before. This would only be noticed by users of older Kronos models who update to 3.0. I'm sorry for those who have encountered this issue, and I sincerely hope that it can be addressed - though as usual I can make no guarantees.


Hi Dan,

Thanks for chiming in chap!.. your comments are always what I have suspected! Indeed let's hope they do address this soon. If not I have rather a lot of work cut out to revert back to OS2! I really wish I had never updated now! For me it was the new setlist colours feature and comments bar that lured me into updating to OS3. In hindsight I should have employed the same caution I have towards Mac OSX: only ever update if it is absolutely necessary!
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Last edited by chini on Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dfahrner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
The issue is that some things are slightly more computationally expensive in 3.0, and that means that very CPU-heavy sounds (lots and lots of layers, for instance) hit the limits of SST a little earlier than they did before. This would only be noticed by users of older Kronos models who update to 3.0. I'm sorry for those who have encountered this issue, and I sincerely hope that it can be addressed - though as usual I can make no guarantees.


Dan: Why would this be only be noticed by users of older Kronos models? The later motherboards have a slightly faster clock speed, I think, or are there other faster parts (DSP chips, etc.) used in the newer models that cause this difference? Is this the only instance (up until now, anyway) where there is a performance difference between older and newer models that is noticeable to users? I should add that while YMMV, it hasn't been noticeable to this user.

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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.
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chini
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.


Good point!
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dfahrner
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.


Thanks for pointing this out, Sander...with nothing to compare to, owners of newer KRONOS aren't going to see any difference, obviously...so this would mean that this is not a performance difference between older and newer hardware, and older KRONOS are still being fully supported with the latest software...that's good to know...

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danmusician
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chini wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:
I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.


Good point!


I think that was Dan's point...
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chini
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danmusician wrote:
chini wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:
I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.


Good point!


I think that was Dan's point...


...sure but this would entail new Kronos users are getting an under performing machine compared to those who have avoided the upgrade!

That's ludicrous! I certainly would not be happy to find this out if I had just bought a 2015 Kronos!
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chini wrote:
danmusician wrote:
chini wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:
I don't think it's noticed only by older Kronos users. It's just that the newer Kronos only ever came with OS3. There was never an OS2 to compare to.


Good point!


I think that was Dan's point...


...sure but this would entail new Kronos users are getting an under performing machine compared to those who have avoided the upgrade!

That's ludicrous! I certainly would not be happy to find this out if I had just bought a 2015 Kronos!


I agree that it WOULD be ludicrous - because it's not true.

As has been observed here previously, each successive model of Kronos has had a slight increase in CPU power. These increases in power reduce the likelihood of emergency voice steal cases, which is what is happening here due to use of extremely highly layered sounds. (At least in the cases I've looked at, we're talking about sounds that are so computationally expensive that they have just a few notes of polyphony - not normal factory Programs.)

The polyphony under normal circumstances should be the same for all models.

So, for owners of the KRONOS 2, (a) their systems are a little less susceptible to the issue, and (b) as SanderXpander notes they aren't comparing performance *on their hardware* between 2 and 3.
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chini
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...OK! I appreciate that the new Kronos has a more powerful cpu to cope better with the increased facilities that OS3 brought but I wish Korg had warned original Kronos owners that upgrading to OS3 might yield a poorer performance in regard to SST. This is the precise problem I am now faced with.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chini wrote:
...OK! I appreciate that the new Kronos has a more powerful cpu to cope better with the increased facilities that OS3 brought but I wish Korg had warned original Kronos owners that upgrading to OS3 might yield a poorer performance in regard to SST. This is the precise problem I am now faced with.


I understand. The thing is, the only cases I've seen which demonstrate this involve extremely heavily layered sounds in which each note played makes very heavy demands of the system. There may be a few factory Combis which fall into this category (I'm not sure), but the vast majority of them do not - the examples I've seen have been user-created Combis - and so the issue simply wasn't noticed.

I hope that something can be done to improve this, but as usual I can make no guarantees.
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