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"Is anybody out there".... paying attention
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: "Is anybody out there".... paying attention Reply with quote

I was just going through all the paperwork that comes with the stuff we buy like my Samsung TV I ended up returning that was never thrown away and for some reason decided to read something I had printed up before throwing it away regarding the fine print that came with it most people don't read... or if they do don't understand because they are not a lawyer that specializes the specific contracts we supposedly agree to sometimes just by using a simple product we purchased with no intent of entering into a complex legal agreement that could have serious dangers and consequences under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. I printed it up to look into it as it sounded like a language translation error more than an agreement someone in their right mind would agree to, but soon returned the TV as it had what seemed like a worse problem than what the agreement in fine print said it had.

So just for the heck of I Googled it to see if anyone else had noticed it and if so what had come of it before throwing the pile of papers away... what I found is spooky and reminds me of the story of putting a frog in a pot of water and slowly heating it to a boil where the frog doesn't notice the relative change in temperature and just sits there without jumping out because the change in heat occurred slowly... only in this case the frog could read and a sign said "increasing heat jump out or die" but the stupid frog didn't believe the warning sign and invited his friends over instead to join him in the pot and watch some TV. It wasn't a typo or language translation error, and shows the blind faith people have in believing what they want to believe even when common sense says what they believe is highly unlikely to be true, and what is true will likely hurt them if they don't react and jump out while their muscles still work.

This is what I found and I would hope people would use some basic common sense and jump out of the pot once in a while to take a break even if things seem "OK" just to protect their children from turning up missing after being located. Remember this TV has a camera too... just like our cell phones, and not everyone is nice and shows their true face and intentions.

From: http://www.dailydot.com/technology/samsung-smart-tv-privacy/

Title: Your Samsung TV hears—and shares—everything you say

"Ever get that paranoid twitch that tells you someone is listening in on your conversation? It’s not an unreasonable feeling if you’re chatting at a crowded bus stop, office break room, or restaurant table, but Samsung SmartTV owners might start to feel that nervous tremble in their own living rooms, thanks to the TV’s ability to capture and transmit anything you happen to say within earshot.

“TV has never been this smart” Samsung boldly declares on its website, and that much is certainly true. The company’s line of ultra-capable televisions can run dozens of apps, stream games and movies, and be controlled via voice commands. That last bit is where privacy advocates might want to dig a little deeper, as the SmartTV privacy policy that applies to anyone who purchases one makes it clear that your voice carries further than you think.

In order for the TV to respond to any legitimate voice commands you happen to utter, it has to be listening the entire time—that way you’re not required to pick up your remote whatsoever, which is one of the main selling points. That’s fine—or at least it would be if the TV itself was capable of making the translation from spoken words into text, which it could then scan for the words and phrases associated with various TV functions. Unfortunately, it isn’t.

Instead, your voice data is sent to an unnamed “third party” via your TV’s Wi-Fi connection, which makes the translation from speech to text and then sends that data back to the TV. That means that everything you say when you’re near your TV is being transmitted to a company Samsung has a deal with, whose software turns it into readable text.

In a statement to the Daily Beast, Samsung noted that the company uses “industry standard” safeguards such as data encryption in order to prevent sensitive information from finding its way into the hands of someone who shouldn’t have it. Of course, that didn’t stop the company from covering its collective rear end with a few key lines in its privacy documentation.

(JFH^^This is what I saved to look into^^)
“Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice Recognition,” the policy notes. A fine bit of disclosure, and it’s nice that it’s included.

However, just a few paragraphs later, Samsung includes the language that you should actually be concerned about: “Samsung is not responsible for these providers’ privacy or security practices. You should exercise caution and review the privacy statements applicable to the third-party websites and services you use.”

The policy states that our data is being sent to a third party, which is not named or otherwise identified in the documentation. Then, under a section specifically labeled “Third Parties,” the user is told that Samsung has no control over the privacy or security practices of third parties. How’s that for reassuring?

If you happen to own one of these TVs and don’t like the sound of any of this—who could blame you?—you can axe your TV’s voice recognition ability via the settings, or simply shut down the device’s Wi-Fi access, though that last solution will also kill off your streaming services and apps as well, so keep that in mind."

My compliments to Daily Dot's Staff Writer Mike Wehner for sharing and issuing a warning over what most people who purchased these TVs never read. But remember these "Smart" TV's update themselves and the ability to turn off a function you have no way of knowing is in use or not including the camera can be changed. I smell a rat that likes the taste of burnt frog as doing voice recognition like this is telling a story without saying a word leaving that up to you and your children in the "privacy" of your own home. And making money off it somehow...
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Bald Eagle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this bothers you then you do not want to read the Windows 10 Privacy Statement. It's far more unsettling.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsung TV's have no “intended” always on function that allows them to listen in on your conversation. The actual microphone is located on the remote control and you have to speak directly into it while holding down a button.

During the time the button is pressed, the TV is recording what your saying and it's also displaying a large Microphone Icon on the screen to indicate your pressing the button( as well as an audio alert). It then transmits that recording over your internet to Dragon Speaking Naturally which turns your speech to text that can be used to carry out whatever command you wanted the TV to perform.

During this process, if the user is stupid enough to press the button and start shouting dangerous keywords down the mic that could get them in trouble, well.... stupid is what stupid does.

It's not Samsung people should be worried about. It's the illegal spying of the NSA who we know for a fact are listening in on everyone. Thank you very much Mr Snowden.

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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only had my Samsung I got on clearance for about a week but remember all you had to do is talk to the TV without the remote and it was activated to hear you all the time. Walk in the door and say "Hi TV" and it would ask for a beer... unless I got that backwards and it never worked. I downloaded the manual for the wrong year model but remember the dealer saying something about the camera on mine being hacked into and the later model let you push it down, but even on the 2012 s ES 8000 the manual says on page 26 that the voice function enables users to enter commands without using the remote control as it has a mic like mine did built into the TV. As I recall the mic on the remote control didn't work hardly at all nor did the motion control. But the TV's mic worked great and it could hear me the kitchen.

But regardless of how the TV is supposed to function if someone in the "3rd party" wanted to listen in the mic built into the TV connected to the Internet was always activated to hear your voice. And I saw in the 2012 manual it said in contradiction that the voice control on the remote was always activated too, but it also referred to using the voice button so not sure what the translation into English was saying as that would eat up batteries transmitting 24 hours a day so it can't be like the TV unless it's voice activated and can do what the button does too... but mine was useless button or no button that you need to push and I relied on the TV's mic and that worked.

The 2012 model has Face Recognition as well that gets stored in the TV and again some "legal warnings" too to go with that. So at least it knows what your voice sounds like to go with your face... but you look safe unless it thinks you are a robot... LOL. And it said using face recognition may be less secure than using an ID and password for logging into the "Smart Hub" which needed the Internet to work right as I recall and one reason it went back as that needed a Samsung Blu-ray player that the two I got had issues but worked great when they did work. On my Panasonic I have all the "smart" features that need the Internet turned off without any issues except for my Blu-ray player that needs to get hooked up to the Internet to upgrade the firmware to play new disks and doing that shows they watch what you watch and on the Samsung that needed to stay on as it set the picture controls for each movie which was awesome, but just the other side of the risk of people you don't know knowing your habits better than most people remember them.

But your right in regards to the scale of this problem as our cell phones and computers are an even a bigger risk and Samsung is just showing how many people want in on the game IMO. I only trust people who tell the truth and act in good faith. Look at the lawsuits filled against Samsung for building TV's any first year electronics student can see why they failed just out of warrantee. If you can solder caps then you could get a good TV for next to nothing someone else paid for.

And BTW... Panasonic just announced their OLED TV's will be out soon.... sounds like Samsung is in for a ride and even LG may get beat up a bit with Panasonic's OLED THX specs. But what would a guy like you want with a tiny 70 inch TV....
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Last edited by John Hendry on Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bald Eagle wrote:
If this bothers you then you do not want to read the Windows 10 Privacy Statement. It's far more unsettling.

Bald Eagle wrote:
If this bothers you then you do not want to read the Windows 10 Privacy Statement. It's far more unsettling.


YyoooU weeerr riiight. Iii jjusst haaad a loookk. Itt''ss teerribbblle....
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Bald Eagle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Hendry wrote:
Bald Eagle wrote:
If this bothers you then you do not want to read the Windows 10 Privacy Statement. It's far more unsettling.

Bald Eagle wrote:
If this bothers you then you do not want to read the Windows 10 Privacy Statement. It's far more unsettling.


YyoooU weeerr riiight. Iii jjusst haaad a loookk. Itt''ss teerribbblle....

Yep... They have full access to EVERYTHING on your hard disk. Imagine if they upload a file with account information and the garbage dump they store it in gets hacked. They have privacy settings scattered all over the place so it will be hard if even possible to shut it all off.

Of course I've already installed it on one machine and will upgrade another soon. Not much choice if you want to stick with Windows.
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I knew you were right but I had to go look anyway. And the contradiction in statements I found exposing the truth were absolutely staggering. Jacqueline Beauchere, Microsoft's Chief Online Safety Officer who I'm sure by odds wants to be a decent person with overall good intentions said: "We also emphasize the need for smart and safe online habits and practices, like keeping personal information private..." with a statement contradicting her own warning in a section of the Win 10 privacy section under " Reasons We Share Personal Data" saying "We share your personal data with your consent or as necessary to complete any transaction or provide any service you have requested or authorized."

And according to the lawyers We the People authorized it by buying a computer and using it in good faith with the lawyers knowing most people will never read 47 pages of legal mumbo jumbo. People limited by time cannot read the "fine print" and by odds will NEVER read it. And people MUST have a computer to live in todays would of technology. The unhidden boldness of the statements made in the "new" 47 page privacy policy shows the insanity of the attorneys who wrote it have lost all respect for cause and effect as well the Law failing to either care or understand why enforced Laws are needed to hold a "Free Society" together. Microsoft is showing off it's power gained by supporting, not fighting, the greed driven break down of societies worldwide and is exposing a growing trend primarily supported by gang mentality that "trickles down" to the lowest levels and will allow the "impossible" to happen that History warns of because of cause and effect.

The public is both overwhelmed by technology and put to sleep by it watching a "movie" they don't understand nor care to understand for one reason or another saying they had the faculties to understand it. The truth is no one understands it and it's little more than an unorganized illegal lawless free-for-all created by the loss of enforcing laws I've witnessed first hand.

When you see people contradict themselves like Microsoft's own Chief Online Safety Officer is exposing because of exceptions to the rules they support you see basic logic being ignored and thrown out the window. It just goes to show how people can construct a reality of illusion to replace the hard cold truth that dictates reality. But in the end it's just like Sharp said "stupid is what stupid does" and that applies to both sides of the coin that will melt if it lands in the right hot spot with cool safe locations becoming fewer and fewer. One side has to wake up to save the other side and anyone that thinks it will be the side with the rich attorneys needs to look closer and accept what they see happening.
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:56 pm    Post subject: Computers that tell lies costs 7.3 billion dollars.... Reply with quote

I think many people assume there is some magic size limit connected to human intelligence and emotion that is controlling the size of crimes involving computers due to some restraint buffer in effect being practiced by the people using the new technology to support dishonesty and break the laws in place that make us safe (when enforced) so they really don't need to worry about "things going wrong". It's natural for people to think other people they depend on are not stupid enough to harm themselves in harming us so they are safe too. But stupid really is what stupid does and now criminals are breaking Federal Laws by programing computers sold to the public to lie. So if you think I have ever said anything of value on this forum then pay attention because it was nothing compared to pointing out the fact that when our computers start lying to us we don't stand a chance of surviving the technology the computers we rely on support.

Regardless of the reason whether it be "I don't care if I make money now" or "I hate the world and this is my revenge" or a delusion brought about by not believing in what is real choosing to believe in fairytales supported by emotions instead... telling lies at the top to support greed will cause hate to take over one way or the other and rule the world until the table of wealth is turned into dust and no longer exists to flip over.

There is a serious problem for humans to overcome caused by the scale of time that created the accelerating expanding Universe and our small place within it. Time is slowed down by gravity and is so large in scale we cannot comprehend it's size and therefore the time scale required for cause and effect to take place... so some say the effect of their actions will never happen to them. And they couldn't care less about anyone else to worry about the contradiction of knowing other people WILL be harmed. As long as they have money NOW... latter simply doesn't matter to them until it's too late and time finds them there.

It has been estimated that a computer information network with over 11 million individual computers in it were all deliberately programed to lie to experts that rely on them for making the world safe has now resulted in 1 million metric tons of pollution to have been released into the air unknowingly each year since 2009 according to an analysis just reported. That is about equal to the combined emissions for all the U.K.'s power stations, vehicles, industry and agriculture. And even if the math reported is wrong and it's "only" half or even twenty five percent of that amount it is exceptionally alarming because although it is substantial, it is also just a drop in the bucket of what else deception supporting corruption using computers is creating in the coming reactions affecting all Life on Earth.

And to say it was caused by computers lying to technicians around the world because someone wanted to ignore needed pollution regulations is completely insane and shows a group of people within a large corporation willing to behave like an outlaw gang to support their BOSS with money and connections to corruption living in Fairyland and not the real world. If we are to take reality seriously the law of cause and effect shows these morons will not like their part in the future just as Hitler Et. al learned. And the problem for all of us is what people like this do next as their future is connected to our future too and history shows they have a tendency to become violent and hurt a lot of people before getting their *** kicked for messing with the freewill of the people that surround them.

So what lie caused this computer based act of deception to cause such a disaster to the Earth's air with cancer rates increasing and trees and plants suffering similar effects?

Eleven million cars worldwide caused it because starting in 2009 Volkswagen installed software to get around the EPA’s required emissions testing. The Environmental Protection Agency revealed last Friday that the affected cars running on diesel fuel appeared to be ruining clean during testing, but emitted high levels of pollutants once they were sold and driven. And it turned out the amount was more than 20 times what the EPA had originally reported and is not subject to debate because Volkswagen admitted it.

Volkswagen also announced affecting it's shareholders that the company would being setting aside about $7.3 billion dollars to pay to fix the problem. But if the problem dealing with basic physics could be fixed mechanically why would they need to make the computers tell a lie in the first place? And what reasonable man would think doing that could be hidden?

How much of the $7.3 billion dollars coming from the company's shareholder's profits will end up in the pockets of EPA and other government officials? Was this all a big scam to rip-off the shareholders? I'm not saying it was, just that it looks like one. We'll know by what the CEO and head company officials do. If they just run off with the money then we know.

But that's not the important question as cooperate corruption is nothing new. The important question arises in seeing how this act of deception supporting a lie was told: How many more lies will our computers tell us before they program us and tell us what to do?

It has been announced "that not only did the EPA order the German firm to fix the affected vehicles — which include diesel TDI versions of the Golf, Jetta, Beetle, and Passat — but the agency could end up levying fines as high as $18 billion. The Department of Justice is also contemplating criminal charges." Now I know it's a scam... reverse symmetry supported by fine print is their two favorite tools JFH^^
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The software used in automobiles is protected under the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act making it illegal to mess with the software so people can't remove the emission controls on their cars and trucks.

Alex Davies at Wired said:

"But these protections also make it harder for independent researchers to scrutinize that code and identify problems. Some experts have proposed DMCA exemptions to allow researchers to test and evaluate these engines but so far automakers and the EPA have resisted this. Presumably, if those exemptions had existed, Volkswagen's deception might have been caught sooner."

Moving the money around... that's all this is IMO. The CEO took off... and when you read the fine print the 18 million dollars in fines the EPA imposes will come from the shareholders.... not the rich responsible. They are immune to the law... and there will always be some thug willing to help it stay that way.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if our computers or our cell phones are the biggest risk allowing information collected to be used to manipulate the world around us where just being late to a meeting can change the outcome of events... but just saw this and now I'm wondering how many people are at risk of the people (well paid trolls IMO) allowed to monitor us getting bored and wanting to step things up a bit like the Corrections Officer who was able to call up places like Mac Donald's and get the managers to "do stuff" to their employees... insane stuff showing evolution is not an "even handed process" over 80 times by just claiming to be the police, and how big the black market is selling "home videos".

This was just reported last week: http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/samsung-smart-tv-huck-1202021420/ "Samsung’s smart TVs are once again in the news for security vulnerabilities: A Swiss hacker was able to hijack a TV made by the company by adding malicious code to a broadcast signal, raising the possibility of a mass take-over of affected TVs.

Rafael Scheel, a security consultant employed by Swiss cyber-security outlet Oneconsult, was able to successfully demonstrate the exploit during a meeting of the European Broadcasters Union, according to an Ars Technica report.

During the demonstration, Scheel sent out a manipulated over-the-air broadcast signal that triggered the TV’s web browser. Using a known browser vulnerability, he was then able to take over the device and remotely control it over the internet

The particular hack in question made use of DVB-T, a digital broadcast standard widely used in Europe but not in North America. However, Scheel argued during his demonstration that attackers could also use other transmission paths, and for example add malicious code to transmissions of IPTV services.

This could, in theory, lead to a scenario during which hackers could attack an internet TV service to add malicious code to a live transmission, and then take over tens of thousands of TV sets at once.

Samsung’s smart TV sets already made headlines when Wikileaks documented efforts by the CIA to use them as remote bugging devices last month. But while the particular attack attempted by the CIA was limited to a few older TV sets by the company, this new exploit is likely going to affect a much wider range of devices. Scheer estimated during his demonstration that about 90 percent of all smart TVs sold in recent years could fall victim to similar attacks.

Samsung didn’t respond to a request for comment."
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Joe Gerardi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big problem is that people think of computers these days as an appliance- something where they click this, or type that, and get the results they want, and are safe and secure doing it.

They DON'T realize that is it an I/O device. A blank sheet that does things based on code. And thus people get themselves - let me type that again for emphasis - THEMSELVES in trouble.

Not learning the device, not being aware of how it works is what messes people up. They slap any and every thing on their computers (and apps on mobiles) thinking it's going to help, without ever thinking first of the possible damage it can cause, and trust the programs to protect them.

Put another way, in the overwhelming majority of instances, they are self-inflicted wounds.

How many of you have a 3rd-party firewall, rather than relying on MS? how many have more than ONE firewall? I have 3 on my network- one software and 2 hardware firewalls.

How often do you think the average PC owner scans for Malware? I went to a friend's house to help wer with her PC- the last time she had run it was over 700 days ago. (The day I installed it!) Was I surprised she had over 200K pieces of Malware on the PC? Not at all.

How often does the average PC owner back up their computer? I mean, the whole thing, OS and all? I have images of my OS drive, so if it blows up, I simply re-image it, rather than re-installing all that OS and program software again; and my data drive is also backed up incrementally, so I don't lose anything.

Finally, security. Think these people change passwords regularly? Think have have different passwords for casual and secure websites? Think they have even different passwords exclusively for their financial websites? Generally, they have one password, and that's it, so when the bad guys get in to one place, they get everything.

I don't really care what the manufacturers do- I am going to protect myself- it's not their job to do it. And if they try to be intrusive, they're going to see the mic covered with tape, the cam covered with paper, and the OS crippled so they're not going to get anything from me.

30 years as a computer engineer has taught me that it's my job to stop everyone, not theirs. See, it's MY data, and I'm not giving it to anyone. Thus, no Google account; thus, no Farcebook; thus, no Twatter; thus, no iTunes, and I will NEVER allow anything on a Cloud.

..Joe
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I'm afraid that's true. Not learning how computers work including our cell phones and smart" TV's puts everyone at risk by taking them for granted. It's like a small fire in the house used to cook food for centuries that could be controled that got bigger and bigger until it threatens to burn down the home without containment. I'm guilty too of not keeping up with the massive OS changes and "legal agreements" on my computer I need to be aware of. Like most people I depend on other people acting in good faith with the skills needed to protect the public... not a very secure situation as I know it's a free-4-all and the governments are not keeping up with technology that is allowing criminals to operate without worrying about it. I think they see it more as a benefit to do what they want collecting information than a real threat because out of arrogance they think they are smarter than the people who create the technology they rely on... which I doubt as the smartest people never want to work for an authority especially one that watches them too. I simply don't have time to study the OS and updates to outsmart the hackers. And I wonder about the countless "optional" security updates Microsoft installs on my computer.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Samsung, you all know they own Harmon, who in turn owns JBL, dbx, Soundcraft, Lexicon, BSS, AKG and Digitech, right? If you want to get really paranoid, think about what is in your Samsung mobile phone, then go up to your AKG mic and say "Okay Google compress my drums and add some delay to the snare"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:53 am    Post subject: Edited: Reply with quote

It's a shame one company like Samsung can gain control of so many other smaller important Companies that at one time made really good products as once profit takes place of free thinking and ingenuity needed to create new and better products we end up with few choices and relatively poor ones at that. You can't even buy a high-end keyboard with poly AT and other features considered standard in audio people would use if available. Oh well... at some point we'll have molecular matter conversion machines that change matter into less dense material and use software to control what is created so human ingenuity and creativity will shine better than ever.... if we survive the negative side of human nature and greed. The US is changing fast and taking the World with it like a big bully and it only takes one mistake to fall over with greed driving in place of logic.... and you wouldn't need to use the mic.... the speaker would work too. Plug a speaker into a mic jack and say something and you'll hear yourself say it which exposes the simplicity of symmetry involved and I would imagine Samsung can do a whole lot more just like you said. And Samsung is behind the US in technology... I don't think you can keep a secret connected to real events and materials anymore from certain technology groups as we notice them notice each other in greater detail.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't read as much into it all as you do, but I do know what happened to E-MU when Creative took them over. And it gives me great joy to know that Creative Labs are now not making pro audio cards and have had to branch into products that used to be the realm of Belkin and Logitech in order to survive since the advent of AC97 chips on every computer motherboard since 2003. Creative Labs deserve to burn. They gutted E-MU then left it in a back street bleeding from the ears. The sad bit is though, I don't think Samsung will fold anytime soon....
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