Custom merging (parts of) sample sets: solved!

[AdDeRoo]

Hi all

(For solution see last post in this thread)

I have been struggling to merge various sample libraries to create some sort of "best of" UserSampleBank (with related PCG), that contains (links to) a few samples of each individual larger UserSampleBank and PCG.

But I don't manage... Would anybody be able to help out on this?

So what I want to do:
As an example, let's say I have:
SET1.PCG and KSC, containing Program U_GG_01 and U_GG_02 and associated samples, and
SET2.PCG and KSC, containing Program U_GG_03 and U_GG_04 and

I want to create a
SET3.PCG and KSC, with only U_GG_01 and U_GG03, and a sampleset ONLY having these samples

I have been trying various things, but always end up with a full sized SET1.KSC and SET2.KSC merged. Obviously, my aim to is only load the samples that are actually used in the PCG, and not all, and thus free sample RAM

Anybody that knows the solution?

Thanks in advance

[AdDeRoo]

Obviously, the above is only an example. In reality, the issue is e.g. merging many more programs and samples from various larger sets of 100 or more

[SanderXpander]

It's a lot of work, basically you need to load them all in RAM using append (rather than replace). But since that changes all sample references you may need to remap a lot of samples within multisamples and multisamples within programs. When you're done though, each next group of samples is simpler since you can append them right away and you only need to set up the multisamples and programs the one time.

After editing don't forget to save the sampling data to disk!

[BillW]

With Awave Studio, I was able to merge multiple banks of sounds into one new bank. This works at the KSC level, not the KMP level (you can also merge in KMPs, but then you'd have to manually build the mapping).

In any case, you can load one KSC, then merge in as many others as you like. Along the way, you can simply delete the multisamples on the left that you don't need (you also have to manually delete the individual samples on the right that make up the multisample, but that's easier than doing this on the Kronos screen).

http://www.fmjsoft.com/awframe.html

[AdDeRoo]

I was hoping that there would be a single, smart command such as SAVE SELECTED, which would save only the (links to ) sampling data actually used in the PCG. So multisamples not used in any program would then actually not be saved, which would result in much less memory use.

Isn't there any?

[SanderXpander]

BillW that's really cool, I had no idea.

[danatkorg]

It's a lot of work, basically you need to load them all in RAM using append (rather than replace). But since that changes all sample references you may need to remap a lot of samples within multisamples and multisamples within programs. When you're done though, each next group of samples is simpler since you can append them right away and you only need to set up the multisamples and programs the one time.

That seems like a complicated approach. I would do it differently.

Unfortunately, there is not an automatic procedure to load only the samples required for a bank of sounds. I agree that this would be a nice addition to the system. (There is a way to do this for Sampling Mode data only; it would be nice to extend this to User Sample Banks and EXs.)

So, you do need to either manually load, or load all and then manually delete parts of, the banks and/or multisamples that you want to use, *as User Banks* (no need to use Sampling Mode). Having done so, you can simply save a new KSC. The new KSC contains links to the User Sample Banks and/or EXs. A single KSC can reference a large number of different User Sample Banks or EXs, if desired. No remapping of multisamples is required. This also avoids duplicating sample data on disk.

The Operation Guide's section "Creating and saving .KSC files" should be helpful.

[SanderXpander]

Dan, from the original question I understood he wanted to exclude some samples from his existing sets.

[danatkorg]

Dan, from the original question I understood he wanted to exclude some samples from his existing sets.

Yes, and that's easy to do. KSCs can load individual Multisamples and/or Drum Samples from any number of EXs and/or User Sample Banks. See the "Creating and saving .KSC files" section of the Operation Guide.

[SanderXpander]

Will do, thanks
So cool to learn new stuff after such a long time

[AdDeRoo]

Thanks Dan and SanderXpander

Will explore this. What I am indeed trying to do is merge several small numbers of HD-programs with their associated (multi)samples, from several different UserSampleBanks, into one (smaller) set of 'favorites'

Will get back with feedback on the suggestions once I tried

[AdDeRoo]

KSCs can load individual Multisamples and/or Drum Samples from any number of EXs and/or User Sample Banks. See the "Creating and saving .KSC files" section of the Operation Guide.

Hi Dan,

I just checked the following:
- Have been loading two large User Sample Banks (using 320 Mb RAM and 2Gb diskspace), with for the rest an empty Kronos
- From Global model, I UNLOADED multisamples from the two sets that I don't want
- Saved the results as a new Favorites.KSC and Userbank.KSC
- loaded the new Favorites_Userbank.kSC with autoload, for the rest an empty Kronos
- this works!: only multisamples loaded that I want, with the right links to the original Userbanks
- BUT: all the samples are still there, so the RAM and file size is still close to the original, which is not the intention (I want to save RAM)
- So, all SAMPLES need still to be removed as well; can be done, but is a heck of a work

Is there no easier way to do it? Should I approach it from the other end: start empty, and only loading various multisamples I want?

Your help is greatly appreciated on this

[danatkorg]

KSCs can load individual Multisamples and/or Drum Samples from any number of EXs and/or User Sample Banks. See the "Creating and saving .KSC files" section of the Operation Guide.

Hi Dan,

I just checked the following:
- Have been loading two large User Sample Banks (using 320 Mb RAM and 2Gb diskspace), with for the rest an empty Kronos
- From Global model, I UNLOADED multisamples from the two sets that I don't want
- Saved the results as a new Favorites.KSC and Userbank.KSC
- loaded the new Favorites_Userbank.kSC with autoload, for the rest an empty Kronos
- this works!: only multisamples loaded that I want, with the right links to the original Userbanks
- BUT: all the samples are still there, so the RAM and file size is still close to the original, which is not the intention (I want to save RAM)
- So, all SAMPLES need still to be removed as well; can be done, but is a heck of a work

Is there no easier way to do it? Should I approach it from the other end: start empty, and only loading various multisamples I want?

Your help is greatly appreciated on this

If you're using User Sample Banks, then what you are seeing are links to Drum Samples for use in Drum Kits. This is because any Sampling Mode sample can be used in a Drum Kit, and User Sample Banks mirror this structure out of necessity. These are something akin to tiny Multisamples, one per Sample - they are a structure above the sample data itself, and are not related to the other Multisamples.

Because of this, you can simply remove *all* of the Samples in each bank. Use the Select All command on the Sample Management page.

[AdDeRoo]

Works perfectly Dan! Thanks for your help

[AdDeRoo]

The best way to merge subsets of full sound libraries is:

Selecting the Userbanks to be merged and selected from:
• In GLOBAL mode, KSC Autoload:
o Load the SET1_USERBANK.KSC into RAM memory;
o Load the SET2_USERBANK.KSC into RAM memory;
o Load the SETx_USERBANK.KSC into RAM memory;
o Be sure that all other Sample and Userbanks are unloaded;
• perform an “Do Autoload Now”

Selecting the Programs:
• Have an empty U-xx HD-bank ready on the KRONOS (e.g. use Sharp’s BLANK.PCG file)
• In DISK mode using the OPEN option, open the SET1.PCG file and drill into the file until you see the individual sounds.
o Now select a Program and play the keys;
• Only LOAD the SET1 Programs individually to the U-xx Bank
• In DISK mode using the OPEN option, open the SET2.PCG file and drill into the file until you see the individual sounds; Only LOAD the SET2 Programs individually and append to the U-GG Bank
• Similarly, append individual programs from SETx.PCG

Keeping only selected multisamples:
• In GLOBAL mode, Sample Management, UNLOAD the multisamples you don’t want to include in the subset; various Userbanks can be reached using the “Bank” selection at top-left of the page;
o There is no other way than to remember or write down which multisamples are used in your selection of programs (Kronos currently has no option to save only multisamples associated with certain programs selected);
• UNLOAD all the Samples from the Userbanks (select in “Type”: Samples). Use "Select All" and "Unload".You don’t need these (note: they are still there in the sample banks on disk) (note2: DON'T use "Unload All In Bank": that will delete also the multisample links of the entire bank);

(note: you can edit these KSC and Userbank.KSC also with a text editor and delete the individual multisample links and samples, if you know what you're doing, and while keeping a backup where you started from.)

SAVE and autoload/restart:
• In DISK mode, do a SAVE SAMPLING DATA (Save Data Options: “All”; Include: “Both Sampling Mode & Links”); this will create a FAVORITES.KSC and a FAVORITES_USERBANK.KSC file that will contain the proper links to the original sample data and userbanks
• In DISK mode, do a SAVE PCG of Bank U-xx only to FAVORITES.PCG;
• Add the FAVORITES_USERBANK.KSC to the KSC Autoload, and perform an “Do Autoload Now” or restart the Kronos