Change in tempo in a variation

nilcar · Post by **nilcar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:35 pm

I needed to change the tempo (BPM) to double time on variation 4. I pressed record style on drop down menu - but the variation still plays in its original tempo even if I've specified variation 4. What gives? Can't we make at least one variation to play in double time? Any ideas out there? Thanks!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:49 pm

Can't we make at least one variation to play in double time?

You just record that variation in double time (leave the "tempo" where it is) - your whole style will be in the same tempo with one variation in double time.

Cheers

Pete

Raul_z · Post by **Raul_z** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:58 pm

hi , you can do that in 2 ways, the simple one is that you have to record VAR4 in 4/8 and the rest( var 1 -3) in 4/4. and the professioal and difficult way is written in the manual(lol)..

good luck.

nilcar · Post by **nilcar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:16 pm

karmathanever wrote:
Can't we make at least one variation to play in double time?
You just record that variation in double time (leave the "tempo" where it is) - your whole style will be in the same tempo with one variation in double time.

Cheers

Pete

Many many thanks to your post. I was wondering about your statement to recored var 4 without changing the tempo. I'm still very new to this keyboard so my question is: since I'm just modifying a style how can I record on var 4 when there's already something recorded there? All I want to do is to speed up or creat a feel of "double time" and (you guessed it) this is to provide MORE excitement at the last variation. Care to make one more comment about this? (BTW I found this feature important through the use of "cha-cha" in my old i3) Many thanks again!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:32 am

Hi again

Raul_z said exactly what I meant. To put it in simple terms (for example):-

Lets assume you are creating a style at 120bpm
Also assume that each VAR is exactly four measures long
You would record the style (VARs 1-3) - playing (recording) at normal speed (120bpm).
To change VAR 4 you need to erase it and re-record....
When you get to VAR 4, you would simply play (record) twice as fast (the PA's tempo still unchanged at 120) - what you are doing is recording two "double-time measures" to fit into each single 120bpm measure - effectively, when you switch to VAR 4 it will sound as double time.

If you are asking how to just change an existing style's VAR to double time, I am not sure if that is possible without some re-recording or exporting, changing and importing the MIDI data.

Quite a few existing styles do this - one excellent style from my i3 days (which I still use on my PA1XPro) is "Hard Bop" which has a Latin half-time feel for VAR 1 but VARs 2-4 are double-time jazz feel. (Excellent style for Jazz numbers like "On Green Dolphin Street").

Hope this helps
Let me know how you go...

Pete

skude · Post by **skude** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:01 am

Hi
May be this can be of any help

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... +variation

skude

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:46 pm

....please read the link above BUT be careful - if you insert a tempo event in the VAR (e.g. VAR 4), the keyboard will not change tempo until that event is reached (played) - so, for example:-

Your style is 120 bpm
In VAR 4 at the very beginning of the first measure, you insert a tempo change event (240bpm).
Now let's assume you are merrily playing VAR 2 (120BPM) and you press VAR 4 - UNLESS you press VAR 4 at the very beginning of the first measure, the tempo will remain at 120 until the first measure is reached (i.e. looped). Also consider how the tempo will switch back to 120 when you go back to VARs 1-3

The same concern arises if you insert program changes within style tracks (to change the instrumentation).

This can be very frustrating...

Cheers

Pete

nilcar · Post by **nilcar** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:14 am

Many thanks again to those trying to help. I'm trying the various suggestions. In the statement "To change VAR 4 you need to erase it and re-record.... ", is there a way I can "cut" to the clipboard the content of this variation, change the tempo to a double-time feel, and "paste" what's on the clipboard? If this is possible, my main point is to transfer the content to the clipboard before erasing VAR 4.

Please note: in style record mode, I highlighted 4/4 and pressed the plus, the minus, and rotated the wheel BUT it DOES NOT change! Again, what gives? Thanks for reading this.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:21 am

is there a way I can "cut" to the clipboard the content of this variation, change the tempo to a double-time feel, and "paste" what's on the clipboard?

Sadly, no.

What follows here is really waffle but I am just trying to explain how I see this problem and help you understand that the change is not easy.....
A style is recorded and built in a constant tempo (through all style elements) - I do not know of a way to modify the time signature (i.e. double time) of a MIDI piece, which is what the style elements are. There may be a PC MIDI sequencer which can convert the time signature and hence "double" the time. If you exported all the VAR 4 parts and Chord Variation parts to external MIDI sequencer (for example, let's assume it is 4 measures long) you would need to convert the 4 measures (as they are) to just 2 measures without changing any MIDI notes. Effectively you have now got the same 4 measures into 2 measures. Now on the PA1XPro, you would have to clear the VAR 4,make it only 2 measures in length, and import the external converted MIDI.
You would need to do this for all ACCs, DRUMs, PERC, BASS for every CV (Chord Variation) in VAR 4 - a lot of work!!

Personally, I wouldn't even commence trying this - I think I could re-record VAR 4 in half the time (if you'll pardon the puns

)

BTW I found this feature important through the use of "cha-cha" in my old i3

Not sure I understand that statement but if you achieved this on your i3 than you should be able to do the same on the PA1XPro, however I would be very interested to know how you did it.

Out of interest, which style are you wanting to change?

Don't know what else to suggest.... sorry...

Good luck

Pete

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:01 pm

karmathanever wrote:Your style is 120 bpm. In VAR 4 at the very beginning of the first measure, you insert a tempo change event (240bpm). Now let's assume you are merrily playing VAR 2 (120BPM) and you press VAR 4 - UNLESS you press VAR 4 at the very beginning of the first measure, the tempo will remain at 120 until the first measure is reached (i.e. looped). Also consider how the tempo will switch back to 120 when you go back to VARs 1-3

Hi Pete & all,

I think the technique of inserting a tempo change using the style/step editor is the way to do this. But, how can we overcome the problem Pete mentioned?

Why not insert the same tempo change at the very beginning of every measure in say VAR4? Then, at whatever measure the variation change kicks in at, won't the keyboard see the tempo change before it plays any notes? Hence for a 4 bar VAR4 you would insert four tempo change events.

This might fix the "problem" with inserting program changes as well - ie just insert one program change at the start of every bar.

Someone else will need to try it ...

Best regards,
Rob

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:08 am

Why not insert the same tempo change at the very beginning of every measure in say VAR4?

Agree Rob, but will the other VARs (1-3) revert to normal 120bpm - i.e. will the other VARs also need tempo changes in all the CVs at each bar? I think that once the tempo event to double time is executed, the tempo will stay there - even for the other VARs - I guess this is OK if you decide never to go back to VARs 1-3.

I am not 100% sure, however, having played around with Program Changes (PCs) within style elements, I have found it can be a disaster when it comes to performance - for the same reason - just select the next VAR a fraction after the PC events and they will not kick in until it loops.

Cheers

Pete

rikkisbears · Post by **rikkisbears** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:55 am

Hi,
I inserted a number of tempo changes in one of the variations , just to see how the pa800 handled it.
It seems to work perfectly for me without a glitch going from one variation back to the one with the tempo changes.

Just go into record mode.
Choose event edit.
Bottom left of screen scroll thru from "drum" icon to "Tempo,"
Hilight Tempo, change it & save as user style.
best wishes
Rikki
p.s.
I also tried changing the variations time signature in my pc sequencer to see if it had any effect. Unfortunately none. It change a 4/4 4 bar variation to 8 bars as a 2/4, and 2 bars as an 8/4. After exporting & importing as a midifile, it still played back at the same tempo & sounded the same whether it had 2, 4, or 8bars.

If the tempo change doesn't work, I think you may have to record a busier variation from scratch.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:52 pm

Good work Rikki

Will try this soon.. only tried this on i30 previously but with some frustrating results as already mentioned...

Pete

rikkisbears · Post by **rikkisbears** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:58 pm

Hi Pete,
the PA800 is sensational. Can't beleive it appears to support multiple time signatures in a style. ie ie I actually managed to copy a 3/4 variation and 4/4 variations into the same style . I'm fairly certain the variations played back correctly, though I'll have to do a bit more experimenting to make sure.
Not that having a 3/4 & 4/4 in the same style makes sense, but I do have some old Richard Clayderman tunes that have 2 or 3 different time signatures in a song.
Neither my psr or ketron are capable of doing it.

Another thing I've noticed is, & hopefully I'm not wrong, is that the major & minor in the intro's & endings , don't have to be the same length. Again my psr & ketron didn't function this way. If the major intro was 4 bars, so was the minor.

My last korg was the i2, & it's way too far back for me to remember what it could & couldn't do.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s
noticed you're an Aussie too. I'm located Port Stephen's area NSW.

karmathanever wrote:Good work Rikki

Will try this soon.. only tried this on i30 previously but with some frustrating results as already mentioned...

Pete