Yes this thread is for everything DS-10 related; tips, tricks, the whole works!
(this if there are enough of you who'll contribute.)
Now first off why in the Kaoss Pad section?
Well until first there are enough people into the thing and that the mods notice enough of a demand, I figure might as well start from some where.
But why "IN" the Kaoss Pad section and not, say like, the electribe section?
Well fundamentally the DS is pretty much a Kaoss pad synth like the kaossolator but with just bit more features!
There are 2 synths that are specifically Kaoss pad driven and like any Kaoss pad you can make changes in the effects, but wait, you can choose what the y axis and x axis do independently!
How does this compare to the Kaossilator?
I don't own a kaossilator but based on the reviews I have read, Id have to say that I like saving my ideas and having them there when I turn the thing back on. Also I like having 18 save slots for full songs and being able to save my sound settings and alike. Is that a good enough to start with?
The kaossilator may have about 100 sounds but you can make as many as you want on the DS-10.
Now to start, I'm going to assume that most of you all that would be into getting a high quality kaoss based portable sythn are most likely not that into pocket video games. However if you are and have the Nintendo DS, you're half way there.
For the rest of us here is the trick to getting your DS-10. First get the software card at Game Crazy, Frys or Amazon.com. You'll spend between $40 to $46.
Next got to your local GameStop or Electronic Boutique and ask for a refurbished/used Nintendo DS. These will cost you about $100 and you can get a nice one...there are plenty at at these 2 stores.
So for a about $150 you now have a powerful high quality portable synth.
Now just to get an Idea of what this sounds like I have posted some of the top youtube videos on the DS-10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1K_jJ0 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlE-PakR ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8yNsuFc ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6XaQvzN ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJYTGJkc ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUI5ZW2Lhh8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqG8hBGD ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqtmya6S ... re=channel
Well that's it for now.
Korg DS-10 thread!
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
-
salamanderanagram
- Senior Member
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:29 am
-
soundklinik33
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: France
Great little program, bought it for my 7 year old but.. 
If you have 47 minutes to spare...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nclj__G4Yxc
Is there an english manual to download anywhere?
cheers
If you have 47 minutes to spare...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nclj__G4Yxc
Is there an english manual to download anywhere?
cheers
Familiarity breeds contempt
Wow I just discovered Vimo! better sound quality than youtube.
Anyhow here is a collection of amazing stuff done on the DS-10 thanks to all of those using Vimo:
DS Lite Orchestra
http://www.vimeo.com/1536515
http://www.vimeo.com/2160644
http://www.vimeo.com/2160702
WOW this on kicks ass...you think Paul Van Dyke might get on of these?
http://www.vimeo.com/2160768
http://www.vimeo.com/2160742
http://www.vimeo.com/2456375
Anyhow here is a collection of amazing stuff done on the DS-10 thanks to all of those using Vimo:
DS Lite Orchestra
http://www.vimeo.com/1536515
http://www.vimeo.com/2160644
http://www.vimeo.com/2160702
WOW this on kicks ass...you think Paul Van Dyke might get on of these?
http://www.vimeo.com/2160768
http://www.vimeo.com/2160742
http://www.vimeo.com/2456375
OK, I bought the DS-10 and just got finished playing with it for the last several hours. I also own a Kaossilator, Kaosspad 3, MiniKP, EMX-1, R3 and other Korg gear.
First of all, the Kaossilator and DS-10 have a very different design, even though they share some features. The DS-10 is more like an EMX-1, except with less than half the features, but the addition of an XY pad instead of the single axis ribbon.
The biggest problem with the DS-10 is that it definitely does not have the punchy bass of the Kaossilator, EMX-1, KP3, or R3. I don't think the problem is the software but the DS hardware. The software does go down to the subsonic because I can hear it on my pro headphones, but the bass is highly attenuated when you get below 100Hz. It also doesn't have the dynamic range of this pro gear. That's not to say the sound is terrible, but just limited. It sounds pretty good in fact, but the lack of bass is exposed when I did a side-by-side comparison with other gear.
The Kaossilator (KO1) and the DS-10 are so different that any direct comparison of the features doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. The KO1 is more plug and play with its synth and rhythm patches, while having no direct access to alter the patches beyond the parameters assigned to the XY. The DS-10 has several banks of built-in patches, but the ability to tweak all of the parameters directly and to assign whatever you want to the XY pad. The DS-10 is step sequencer based. The KO1 is looper based. The DS-10 has a multi track mixer, the KO1 looper is a single overdub looper with memory. Not a lot of overlap. They both have XY pad control, that's the most common feature between them. The K01 has better direct arp pattern control for live playing, while the DS-10 has better XOX style editing of patterns.
The DS-10 really should be compared to the EMX-1, not the KO1. The DS-10 doesn't come close in features or quality to the EMX-1. The EMX-1 sounds awesome. The DS-10 sounds good. Side-by-side there is no comparison, the EMX-1 blows away the DS-10. But of course $39 software running on a $130 hardware isn't an apples to apples comparison to a $500 EMX-1. I only am comparing them because they are so similar in design as XOX step sequenced synths.
Moving beyond the disappointing bass, what I like about the DS-10 is how many features were packed into $39 software. Even for the package cost of DS lite+DS10, you've got an awful lot of power and fun in a tiny battery powered package. It isn't a Kaossilator or EMX-1 killer by any stretch. There's room for all of them. I think the DS-10 will be kind of like a sketch pad to build beats that I'll move to the EMX-1 for live performance. The KP3 + KO1 + DS-10 also would seem to be a great combination, with the awesome punchy drums + EFX + sampling/looping on the KP3, the XOX style sequencing, dynamic parameter changes to the synth and multitrack of the DS-10, with the great sounding synth & arps on the K01.
First of all, the Kaossilator and DS-10 have a very different design, even though they share some features. The DS-10 is more like an EMX-1, except with less than half the features, but the addition of an XY pad instead of the single axis ribbon.
The biggest problem with the DS-10 is that it definitely does not have the punchy bass of the Kaossilator, EMX-1, KP3, or R3. I don't think the problem is the software but the DS hardware. The software does go down to the subsonic because I can hear it on my pro headphones, but the bass is highly attenuated when you get below 100Hz. It also doesn't have the dynamic range of this pro gear. That's not to say the sound is terrible, but just limited. It sounds pretty good in fact, but the lack of bass is exposed when I did a side-by-side comparison with other gear.
The Kaossilator (KO1) and the DS-10 are so different that any direct comparison of the features doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. The KO1 is more plug and play with its synth and rhythm patches, while having no direct access to alter the patches beyond the parameters assigned to the XY. The DS-10 has several banks of built-in patches, but the ability to tweak all of the parameters directly and to assign whatever you want to the XY pad. The DS-10 is step sequencer based. The KO1 is looper based. The DS-10 has a multi track mixer, the KO1 looper is a single overdub looper with memory. Not a lot of overlap. They both have XY pad control, that's the most common feature between them. The K01 has better direct arp pattern control for live playing, while the DS-10 has better XOX style editing of patterns.
The DS-10 really should be compared to the EMX-1, not the KO1. The DS-10 doesn't come close in features or quality to the EMX-1. The EMX-1 sounds awesome. The DS-10 sounds good. Side-by-side there is no comparison, the EMX-1 blows away the DS-10. But of course $39 software running on a $130 hardware isn't an apples to apples comparison to a $500 EMX-1. I only am comparing them because they are so similar in design as XOX step sequenced synths.
Moving beyond the disappointing bass, what I like about the DS-10 is how many features were packed into $39 software. Even for the package cost of DS lite+DS10, you've got an awful lot of power and fun in a tiny battery powered package. It isn't a Kaossilator or EMX-1 killer by any stretch. There's room for all of them. I think the DS-10 will be kind of like a sketch pad to build beats that I'll move to the EMX-1 for live performance. The KP3 + KO1 + DS-10 also would seem to be a great combination, with the awesome punchy drums + EFX + sampling/looping on the KP3, the XOX style sequencing, dynamic parameter changes to the synth and multitrack of the DS-10, with the great sounding synth & arps on the K01.
Good Review!
My main complaint with KO1 (hence my "killer" comment) had more to do with functionality verses cost. If the KO1 was just $100 or less then yes I'd say thats a pretty good buy. But for about the same $200 you get so much more from a DS-10 Kaoss based synth.
Both the KO1 and the DS-10 are synth only Kaoss pads.
This is where they are the same. Where they are different is in the way they handle sound. KO1 is looper based which is pretty much sound on sound/overdubbing using non-editable pre-made sounds, patterns, arp. DS-10 is a step sequenced based Kaoss synth. Here you can do the Kaoss bit but go back and actually edit your Kaoss X and Y settings independently! The DS-10 is also a modeled synth based on Korgs MS-10.
This is important to understand because you actually have to create your own sounds. The DS-10 is not forgiving when comes to those who want to just start playing right away. If you know enough about synthesis then you will get alot out of this device. If you have always wanted to learn about synthesis and sequencing (and what the rest of these cats here on this forum are talking about in the tribe or triton land) then this is actually the best tool to learn from hands down! Instead of being looper/SOS based DS-10 uses a 6 track mixer. 2 stereo tracks are used for the synth and 4 are dedicated to the rhythm and beats. If you wanted to you can buy more DS lites and DS-10 software to add more of an arrangement synced thru its internal wifi connection (again guys buy used! DS lites are only $100).
When you look at both Kaoss synths you'll find that the DS-10 is more for the composer in mind as oppose to a live player...granted there are many performers out there using this set up as a live tool.
One of the main caveats is the lack of a deep base. this is handled in one of two ways. Either you have to work on your settings of your base sound or when you record you have this going thru an eq. To be honest with you I played my DS-10 thru my friends expensive sound system in their car an I got the tumping booming sound quite easily after a few adjustments in the drums edit mode.
Having the live looper based feel is easily achived if you go out thru a (do i dare say) Boss DD-20 which (sorry Korg) is the best delay and live stereo SOS looper on the market. Either that or I need to sit down more with my KP3 or mini KP and find out if there is a good SOS looper on any of them. But anyhow you get the point.
My uses for the DS-10 are more for composition and developing more creative rhythm and beats for my music. I could have gone out and get me an EMX1 (which by the way should not be no where near compared to a DS-10) but because I'm primarly a guitarist and being that I have now 2 ES-1s collecting dust, I learned that step sequencing is a pain in the ass when it comes to sub-menus and those little soft keys. I tried to make it work for me but no dice. This is where my praises for the DS-10 come in. It is so damn easy to develop and edit the step sequencer. The time it would have taken me to fiddle with this type of editing on an electribe has been cut by 75%. I LOVE using a Kaoss pad to set up sequencing! Draw it out, go back and edit minor details of what I drew out. I don't care how b!then you think your tribe is, I don't play with boxes I play with strings hahahaha! So for those of us who play other instruments but want some of those kool little techno beats to accompany our music but don't have all the time in the world to program a beat machine, the DS-10 is truly the best way to go. OH yeah and I am assuming most of you who I'm writing this to know how to line out of the mini jack into your digital mixer connected to your DAW software.
Ultimately these 2 devices seem more like test market products done on the cheap to see how well something that combines everything together would sell. Think Triton Extreme but based on Kaoss Pad technology instead of Keys. I'll touch more on this in a later post or thread.
My main complaint with KO1 (hence my "killer" comment) had more to do with functionality verses cost. If the KO1 was just $100 or less then yes I'd say thats a pretty good buy. But for about the same $200 you get so much more from a DS-10 Kaoss based synth.
Both the KO1 and the DS-10 are synth only Kaoss pads.
This is where they are the same. Where they are different is in the way they handle sound. KO1 is looper based which is pretty much sound on sound/overdubbing using non-editable pre-made sounds, patterns, arp. DS-10 is a step sequenced based Kaoss synth. Here you can do the Kaoss bit but go back and actually edit your Kaoss X and Y settings independently! The DS-10 is also a modeled synth based on Korgs MS-10.
This is important to understand because you actually have to create your own sounds. The DS-10 is not forgiving when comes to those who want to just start playing right away. If you know enough about synthesis then you will get alot out of this device. If you have always wanted to learn about synthesis and sequencing (and what the rest of these cats here on this forum are talking about in the tribe or triton land) then this is actually the best tool to learn from hands down! Instead of being looper/SOS based DS-10 uses a 6 track mixer. 2 stereo tracks are used for the synth and 4 are dedicated to the rhythm and beats. If you wanted to you can buy more DS lites and DS-10 software to add more of an arrangement synced thru its internal wifi connection (again guys buy used! DS lites are only $100).
When you look at both Kaoss synths you'll find that the DS-10 is more for the composer in mind as oppose to a live player...granted there are many performers out there using this set up as a live tool.
One of the main caveats is the lack of a deep base. this is handled in one of two ways. Either you have to work on your settings of your base sound or when you record you have this going thru an eq. To be honest with you I played my DS-10 thru my friends expensive sound system in their car an I got the tumping booming sound quite easily after a few adjustments in the drums edit mode.
Having the live looper based feel is easily achived if you go out thru a (do i dare say) Boss DD-20 which (sorry Korg) is the best delay and live stereo SOS looper on the market. Either that or I need to sit down more with my KP3 or mini KP and find out if there is a good SOS looper on any of them. But anyhow you get the point.
My uses for the DS-10 are more for composition and developing more creative rhythm and beats for my music. I could have gone out and get me an EMX1 (which by the way should not be no where near compared to a DS-10) but because I'm primarly a guitarist and being that I have now 2 ES-1s collecting dust, I learned that step sequencing is a pain in the ass when it comes to sub-menus and those little soft keys. I tried to make it work for me but no dice. This is where my praises for the DS-10 come in. It is so damn easy to develop and edit the step sequencer. The time it would have taken me to fiddle with this type of editing on an electribe has been cut by 75%. I LOVE using a Kaoss pad to set up sequencing! Draw it out, go back and edit minor details of what I drew out. I don't care how b!then you think your tribe is, I don't play with boxes I play with strings hahahaha! So for those of us who play other instruments but want some of those kool little techno beats to accompany our music but don't have all the time in the world to program a beat machine, the DS-10 is truly the best way to go. OH yeah and I am assuming most of you who I'm writing this to know how to line out of the mini jack into your digital mixer connected to your DAW software.
Ultimately these 2 devices seem more like test market products done on the cheap to see how well something that combines everything together would sell. Think Triton Extreme but based on Kaoss Pad technology instead of Keys. I'll touch more on this in a later post or thread.
Here's the best I can find for settings that work with the DS-10. These are the original suggested settings for the MS-10. Some are good, some are...well, at least you get something to start with and you are not totally in the dark.
Music instruments:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... musin.html
Common Classic Lofi Synth sounds:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... sesyn.html
If you can find use for these...the sound effects:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... sesfx.html
Again since the DS-10 is modeled after the MS-10, most of all the settings in these example should transfer pretty well. This at least gives you a start as far as creating good sounds instead of blindly creating more noise.
Also about the only new tip i can offer someone here, like any analog synth you only need to make small incremental adjustments on the DS-10 knobs to get a drastic change.
Music instruments:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... musin.html
Common Classic Lofi Synth sounds:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... sesyn.html
If you can find use for these...the sound effects:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manu ... sesfx.html
Again since the DS-10 is modeled after the MS-10, most of all the settings in these example should transfer pretty well. This at least gives you a start as far as creating good sounds instead of blindly creating more noise.
Also about the only new tip i can offer someone here, like any analog synth you only need to make small incremental adjustments on the DS-10 knobs to get a drastic change.
On Korgs site The KO-1 is listed as a "Dynamic Phrase Synthesizer"xmlguy wrote:Actually, the KO1 isn't a synth only pad. It has samples. They are quite apparent on the acoustic patches. I think some of the drums and other patches use samples too. It's hard to know where sampling leaves off and synthesis takes over on the K01, because it's a black box in a yellow cover.
Yes it is. That doesn't mean it only uses VA synthesis. That's also the difference between reading what's listed in the specs and knowing what it actually does from experience. There's no way that the piano and other acoustic patches are all VA synthesis. They are sampled waves. The MicroKorg and R3 are also listed as VA synthesizers, but they have DWGS waves that make them hybrids.SMK wrote:On Korgs site The KO-1 is listed as a "Dynamic Phrase Synthesizer"xmlguy wrote:Actually, the KO1 isn't a synth only pad. It has samples. They are quite apparent on the acoustic patches. I think some of the drums and other patches use samples too. It's hard to know where sampling leaves off and synthesis takes over on the K01, because it's a black box in a yellow cover.
The DS-10 doesn't have DWGS or any complex waves. It only has basic waves: sine, saw, square, and noise. The EMX-1 also has DWGS/PCM. So of the three, the DS-10 is the only one limited to synthesis without PCM/DWGS sampled waves. But that's ok, because you can do some pretty good synthesized patches with two OSC+noise and the relatively advanced synth structure of the DS-10. You just won't be able to do realistic instruments such as acoustic pianos or other complex acoustic instruments. It's also another reason why EMX-1 sounds a lot better than the DS-10.
The DS-10 shows a lot of promise and the use of PCM/DWGS would be a great feature for a future version. It would also be nice to have more simultaneous effects, but the DS hardware may not be powerful enough for that. There's a lot more CPU power on the PSP-3000 or iPodTouch/iPhone hardware.
well to be honest my description of Synth only Kaoss Pads is pretty simple, like a keyboard you can play notes except unlike a keyboard you play it with a touch pad not with keys. The DS-10 and KO1 are not effect processors and have no way of recording samples. The type of synth is immaterial. Tes the KO-1 synth/sample are more complex than the DS-10 but you lose out not having real control or the possibility to save your work. Where as the DS-10 has all of the control in the world but you have to work 10 times harder to get a good sound. It's a trade off! But anyway you slice it VA or DWG synths are still synths used in these 2 products.
Yeah, I had a feeling the sound would suffer due to the Nintendo's limitations. This is why I think the producer should make a software app for ds-10 files, allowing fuller sound, and by this making it more attractive to producers.xmlguy wrote:The biggest problem with the DS-10 is that it definitely does not have the punchy bass of the Kaossilator, EMX-1, KP3, or R3. I don't think the problem is the software but the DS hardware. The software does go down to the subsonic because I can hear it on my pro headphones, but the bass is highly attenuated when you get below 100Hz. It also doesn't have the dynamic range of this pro gear. That's not to say the sound is terrible, but just limited. It sounds pretty good in fact, but the lack of bass is exposed when I did a side-by-side comparison with other gear.
Thoughts?
I spent several more hours with the DS-10, this time building a full song. As soon as I'm happy with the song, I'll post a link to it.
However I ran into a couple of serious problems that will limit its usefulness to me. I don't want to sound negative about the DS-10 because there's so much to like about it. So I'll first list some of my favorite features before getting into the problems.
I really like how the sequencer tracks have much more than merely note-on/off events. You can do dynamic L/R panning, volume, gate, Kaoss X&Y (separately) for each track. This gives a lot of motion to the playback if you use them. The drum tracks also allow different notes and each drum patch is pretty much fully editable just like the synth patches, except that envelope doesn't have a release, only attack/decay/sustain. That really gives you a full 6 tracks of sequencing, if you don't want to use the four drum tracks only for drums.
That leads me to the first problem. The Release on the synth tracks doesn't seem to work right. Any release value besides zero pretty much becomes an infinite release. Strange, but not really a major problem except for pads/long sustain notes and chords (using the dual OSC for multiple notes).
The first major problem I found is that there seems to be no way to copy an individual sequence between SYN1 SEQ and SYN2, or from SYN1 on one pattern to SYN1 or SYN2 on another pattern. You can only copy a whole pattern from one to another. That is extremely bad news, because if there is one SEQ you like but one you don't on a pattern, you have to attempt to manually recreate it, which is virtually impossible if you recorded the sequence using the KAOSS pad.
The second major problem is that the Song mode doesn't allow any improvisation while the song is playing. The song only plays the saved patterns and stops playing if you attempt to modify any pattern or use a Kaoss pad to jam on top of it. That is TERRIBLE. With all the other Kaoss stuff you can always jam on top of whatever is playing. That make Song mode useless for me for live jamming. Fortunately, the workaround is to not use Song mode and directly select Patterns, which do let you use the Kaoss pad to improve on top of the playback. Whatever you play on the Kaoss will replace whatever notes are currently sequenced on the SYN patch you use, but that's OK and that's how the EMX works when using the arp ribbon. The EMX lets you jam on top of a song, of course. Another oddity is that there doesn't seem to be a way to automatically stop a song once you start it. It automatically loops. You have to manually stop the song yourself, which means you've got to pad the song with blank space at the end and remember to stop it.
However I ran into a couple of serious problems that will limit its usefulness to me. I don't want to sound negative about the DS-10 because there's so much to like about it. So I'll first list some of my favorite features before getting into the problems.
I really like how the sequencer tracks have much more than merely note-on/off events. You can do dynamic L/R panning, volume, gate, Kaoss X&Y (separately) for each track. This gives a lot of motion to the playback if you use them. The drum tracks also allow different notes and each drum patch is pretty much fully editable just like the synth patches, except that envelope doesn't have a release, only attack/decay/sustain. That really gives you a full 6 tracks of sequencing, if you don't want to use the four drum tracks only for drums.
That leads me to the first problem. The Release on the synth tracks doesn't seem to work right. Any release value besides zero pretty much becomes an infinite release. Strange, but not really a major problem except for pads/long sustain notes and chords (using the dual OSC for multiple notes).
The first major problem I found is that there seems to be no way to copy an individual sequence between SYN1 SEQ and SYN2, or from SYN1 on one pattern to SYN1 or SYN2 on another pattern. You can only copy a whole pattern from one to another. That is extremely bad news, because if there is one SEQ you like but one you don't on a pattern, you have to attempt to manually recreate it, which is virtually impossible if you recorded the sequence using the KAOSS pad.
The second major problem is that the Song mode doesn't allow any improvisation while the song is playing. The song only plays the saved patterns and stops playing if you attempt to modify any pattern or use a Kaoss pad to jam on top of it. That is TERRIBLE. With all the other Kaoss stuff you can always jam on top of whatever is playing. That make Song mode useless for me for live jamming. Fortunately, the workaround is to not use Song mode and directly select Patterns, which do let you use the Kaoss pad to improve on top of the playback. Whatever you play on the Kaoss will replace whatever notes are currently sequenced on the SYN patch you use, but that's OK and that's how the EMX works when using the arp ribbon. The EMX lets you jam on top of a song, of course. Another oddity is that there doesn't seem to be a way to automatically stop a song once you start it. It automatically loops. You have to manually stop the song yourself, which means you've got to pad the song with blank space at the end and remember to stop it.