PA800 sync problem

[Rob Sherratt]

I think the only thing that would work really stable is if the Pa could sync to or from a MTC midi time code,and it is one of my biggest wishes, that Korg will impliment MTC in the next OS.This would make the Pa much more useable in studie setups.And Rob I remember we have had this discussion a few months ago.Cubase does not synck to a midi clock ,only
MTC.Rob if you would mention this to some of the guys from Korg it would be great.

Regards
Kid late

Hi Kid Late,

I agree with you that MTC would provide a better way of stabilising received clock rates.

However, I have to get certain facts straight before I speak with my contact in Korg. It can be very embarassing for him and me otherwise. His colleagues don't implement new functions just based on suggestions from me/ this forum. There have to be sound commercial reasons as well. Hence some follow up questions if you want to take this further:

1. Can you provide some written evidence published by Steinberg that says that Cubase 4 can not sync to external MIDi Clock? This is the first I heard of this limitation. Surely there would be an uproar among studio users of Cubase 4 if it cannot sync to external Midi clock?

2. I am aware of a limitation in the Cubase SE and Atari editions that they were stripped down versions that can only be a MIDI clock master not a slave. Hence they can not receive MIDi clock. There is also no MTC capability in the SE or LE versions either. Are you referring to one of those versions perhaps?

3. As far as I know, there is no Korg keyboard that has MTC sync capability. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary?

4. Can you provide any evidence that other keyboards from Yamaha and Roland that have MTC sync capability?

Maybe if you and I can present a factual case to Korg that lack of MTC sync is causing people to switch from Korg to Yamaha or Roland products, then Korg will listen. Otherwise I don't hold out much hope about this.

Best regards,
Rob

[vagro]

I connected my Korg Tr trough Midi cable enabling my PA500 as a slave (External Midi clock) and it it much more stable, ocassionaly moving the tempo +- 1 bpm. Other brands and even my Korg Tr when are slave don´t show the tempo, they only show in the display the word "EXT" so probably we don´t notice this variation in the tempo.

[kid_late]

Hi Rob
I'm sorry this took so long but I had a CD project to finish.
Anyway. Cubase SX1-2-3 and 4+5 can not sync to a midiclock.
Other secuencers that I know of (that include audiotracks) can not sync to a midiclock.As to give any proof you can download the manual from [url]http://www.steinberg.net/en/suppor ... io_5.html.As to you question about korg keyboards that send MTC
I don't know,but I don't think so. I do know that the way people work in
their home studio today,there are many who would want MTC as would be a very convinent way to audision styles or single tracks from the build in styles of the PA2x. I would personly have the left hand recorded in my sequencer and have an MTC to sync the system.That way I could also have the PA sending midi to a VST instrument.The midi clock is simply not
precise enough and i regard it a thing of the past.

Hope this was a bit helpfull
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[Rob Sherratt]

<deleted>

[kid_late]

Hi Rob

I have the full new version of Cubase 5.Cubase does not sync to a midi clock . I haven't seen any version that has done so since audio was integratet in Cubase.Cubase has always been able to sync to almost
any sync format.But-the reason why Steinberg left out midi clock sync is that it is not sample accurate.And that is why it will probly never be introduced again.Cubase can send out almost any sync format and I just don't understand why Korg can't make the PA sync to a MTC as in my view that shold be a minor software problem.The MTC feature would make the PA far more usefull in the studio.

best regards
Kid Late

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Kid Late,

Yes you are right. I downloaded the manuals and Cubase 5 can only generate MIDI Clock and not receive it as a sync source. Hence the Pa2x/ Pa800 must be configured to accept external MIDI clock sync generated by Cubase. It seems this is also the case for Sonar and other PC based sequencers that have digital audio capabilities.

Suppose there was a MIDi keyboard capable of accepting MTC sync from Cubase. What additional benefits would you get that you do not have at present with external MIDI clock sync?

Best regards,
Rob

[kid_late]

Hi Rob
The most important is that the sync would be a lot better and that would
be a great improvement.As it is now, the tempo changes up and down -+ 4 beats or more, depending on the tempo .That is simply not acceptable.With MTC you could sync precisely to an audio file.You could sync drums or VST drums and other instruments without having to have the tracs recorded in the PA.But I know there will be several other possibilities for syncing with outboard gear.Midi time code is simply not the standard for syncking anymore.

Best regards

Kid Late

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Kid_Late,

I have had my Pa2x synced to Cakewalk Sonar Home Studio using Midi Clock via my Creative Labs XFi Xtreme Music card, and there was no noticeable clock jitter at all. The bpm remained constant.

I am just about to upgrade to Cakewalk Sonar Producer v8.3 using the Power Studio 660 Firewire interface, because I do want to sync Midi and digital audio together especially now I am using both an M3 and (in the near future) the Pa2x in my studio.

I mention this because there are many reasons for jitter in Midi Clock that can be solved. The Cubase manual discussses numerous driver and latency issues.

Best regards,
Rob

[Marco Filipe]

hello Rob, Kid_Late and everyone. I am also one of those who agree that Korg should have MTC. And long ago I need this in my PA3X. if the KORG need motivation to change it. then nothing better than to prove that Roland have MTC. I can prove it to KORG if you want.

[kid_late]

Please dó that

[siebenhirter]

hi,
If using midi clock over usb as good as any - even high quality - usb interface has bad timing in the midi clock.

In USB, there are numerous modes for synchronising the audio between the PC (the host), and an audio device. The most popular of these, "adaptive", involves the audio device synchronising itself to the USB "frame" provided by the PC. Via USB you get the data into a 64 byte frame and thus can not even determine the time between the clocks.This tends to give poor jitter performance.

Simple HiFi-converters with USB interface usually operate with simple USB chips, installed without special drivers. Therefore it is expected that the jitter that can be quite extreme, besides as USB ist not galvanically decoupled.

High-quality Midi-Sync-Interfaces operates in "asynchronous" mode (but not to be confused with asynchronous rate conversion), where the audio device synchronises the audio by providing a feedback pipe to the PC. The PC then is effectively locked to the audio device, which can have a much more accurate clock and much lower jitter.

i think, USB maybe good, but for something other then midi-clock and not depending on any brand of keyboards.