What is the current status of MOSS?

strongrelax · Post by **strongrelax** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:31 am

Hello everyone, i am new here, although a long time Z1 user.
So is MOSS dead? Does M3(or radias) have anything like MOSS?

krazy78 · Post by **krazy78** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:47 am

Hi & welcome to KF
MOSS has been discontinued for a while now, but its certainly not dead,
second hand prices keep going up, so if you are lucky enough to find one buy it

The M3 has the Radias EXB , which is different from MOSS, more focused on analog modelling (MMT)

strongrelax · Post by **strongrelax** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:52 am

I see. Too bad Korg abandoned it

Too much analog modeling gear out there and not enough unique synths like Z1 or V-synth. I wish they'd come up with at least a soft moss, but without usb dongle(legacy:().

Btw, my Z1 buttons are going bad, a few no longer respond, is this repairable? Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue?

krazy78 · Post by **krazy78** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 am

I agreee with you on that

The buttons are a bit of an issue on korg keyboards, its the switches that fail , ive had mine replaced twice on my triton, the whole board needs to be dismantled to get to the buttons, i think the Z1 has the same buttons as the tritons (although im not sure)
Its best to contact korg in your country to find the nearest authorised korg repairer near you.

strongrelax · Post by **strongrelax** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:51 am

Contacted a couple of repair shops, got estimate of $175

for buttons...
That's crazy, i'd rather use it as a module.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:03 am

radias actually has a comb filter which can achieve some great physical modeling, particularly plucked strings. it is more flexible in that you have complete control over the excitor properties using the oscillators and noise and having the three EGs helps this, but it is less user friendly in that you don't have a 'wind model' and a 'string model'. but you are not limited to just wind or reeds or strings... you can make anything.

but yes, the RadiasEXB for M3 is the equiliviant of the MOSS board for triton

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:25 am

X-trade, although I understand what you're saying about how the Radias has a lot of power to simulate analog instruments with features such as the comb filter, that's not physical modeling because it's still using the Virtual Analog Synthesis approach and terms. Physical modeling is more than the result of the sound. It's the way the problem of simulation is approached, the choice of algorithms and formulas (like string tension vibration harmonics), and more importantly, the terminology and relationship between the parameters used to modify the sound. There is nothing in the Radias that uses physical modeling. That doesn't take anything away from the Radias, even though it doesn't replace MOSS.

OASYS is the only recent Korg keyboard that does physical modeling other than MOSS. The best options for physical modeling seem to be in the softsynth world.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:33 am

well I see that what you're saying relates to what I said about it being user friendly, with regards to the parameters, but almost all physical modeling is based on a comb filter to simulate the resonant properties of a string or a pipe or a reed...

its like the difference between a programming language and excel... for example one kind of waters it down, and I think the abstraction of parameters from the basic way the synth is actually creating the sounds limits the potential usage of it, but makes it easier to understand from a nontechnical point of view.

I suppose the analogue modeling is just one way of thinking of it. in the drumwave section on the radias board (i believe this is not included in the EXB?), there are 'attack' portion samples that are good for triggering comb filtered sounds or for LA synthesis...

one thing I like about the Moss though is the drawbar/tonewheel thing... would like to see that more.

anyway, I do appreciate what you're saying about this, I just see the abstraction of the parameters as a bad thing, i suppose you're saying its a good thing

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:22 am

Actually, I think they're just different approaches, which is why I have an R3 and a Z1. I like both MMT and MOSS, but for very different reasons.

The MOSS reed model in particular is something that I can't come close to reproducing on MMT.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:56 pm

I think Moss will stay usable for as long as it is out there and still working.

Moss isn't dead per se, but it does mean that it hasn't been updated since it was first unveiled. In other words it's older technology, but due to lack of demand or similar some of the features it has (physical modelling) haven't been superseded since then.

The Radias' MMT engine has pluses and minuses compared with the Moss. Differing specifications and features, and as such they're not really that comparable I feel.