Some (more) M3 Questions

PCanas · Post by **PCanas** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:31 am

Hi everyone!!

First of all, I'm new here and I don't own an M3 (yet). I have a Roland RD700SX.

I have several questions mainly about controling other keyboards with M3 and yes: I've used the Search function

So, let's go to the questions...

1:
Let's say I have M3 as master and RD as slave (M3 MIDI OUT ---> RD MIDI IN); I have one footswitch pedal connected to M3 only; can I program the M3 to when I press that pedal it sends some kind of signal/message to RD to change program/patch/combi/whatever (in other words, the sound I'm using)?
1.1 - can I program it to change programs in M3 only?
1.2 - can I program it to change programs in RD only?
1.3 - can I program it to change programs in both keyboards at same time?
1.4 - let's say I'm using a program in both M3 and RD (lets name it prog1m3 and prog1rd) and have the M3 programmed so as soon as I press the FS it will change programs in both keyboards (so I'll have prog2m3 and prog2rd); when the M3 changes to prog2 can I tell him that the next time I press the FS it will change only the RD/M3?

in other words:
- M3 and RD are using prog1
- I press FS and both keyboards change to prog2
- I press FS again and only M3 OR RD change program

2:
The same problem of question 1, but this time with a damper pedal.
1.1 - can I program it to work in M3 only?
1.2 - can I program it to work in RD only?
1.3 - can I program it to work in both keyboards at same time?

3:
Let's say that in some situations I want to control my RD via M3, and in other situations I want to control my M3 via RD; I would have to link both MIDI IN/OUT from each keyboard, right?
3.1 - can I say to keyboards "now you're master...[program change]...now you're slave"

in other words:
- I'm using M3 as master, controling a synth sound in RD
- I press FS and program changes
- RD becomes master and I'm now controling an M3 piano sound

I guess it has something to do with MIDI channels, right?

Well, I thinks that's all for now

Thanks for your help!!

Peace!!

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:13 pm

Hi PCanas,

All these things can be done if you use a programmable MIDI footswich/ pedal board like the Behringer FCB1010.

The M3 has an extremely comprehensive programmable MIDi capability, with many assignable switches and sliders, and you can also program messages into an RPPR and then assign the RPPR so it generates a long MIDi control sequence when you play the correspopnding notes on the keyboard. Many people assign the bottom four or five notes for RPPr usage. So you can definitely find a way to do what you want using buttons and keys.

However I doubt if you can use the M3 with a "dumb" footpedal to assign all the functions you want, that's why I recommended the FCB1010 which is the way I do it when I want to send complex MIDI controls and multi-channel messages to both my Pa2x and my M3.

You say you have searched the documentation. You need to download the M3 XPanded Parameter Guide, and read the sections about RPPR and control surface capability. You can also download the manual for the Behringer FCB1010 and check out its capabilities.

For me, I would be inclined to use the RD700SX as the master keyboard in conjunction with an FCB1010. I prefer a weighted keyboard although my Pa2x's 76 note semi weighted keyboard is pretty good. You could save money by getting say the M3-61 instead of the M3-88.

Best regards,
Rob

Besst regards,
Rob

PCanas · Post by **PCanas** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:17 pm

Hi!

Thanks for the answer; I'll check that pedal board; when I mentioned the FS I was thinking in something like a boss FS5, but it looks like it's not enough; I'll buy the 61 key version yes...I've carried my RD lots of times and I know how much an 88 keys weights lol so I guess one 88 is enough.

PCanas · Post by **PCanas** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:25 am

Hi!

I checked the FCB1010 and realised that it has only 1 MIDI OUT, right? So, how I would I control both keyboards with that? I'd have do connect it in M3's MIDI IN and then from M3's MIDI THRU to RD's MIDI IN, right? (or vice-versa). And then I would have to say that M3 works on MIDI channels x to y and RD works in the remaining channels, so I could send messages to one keyboard only, right?

Is there anything like the FCB but with 2 (or more) MIDI OUTs? Is it really necessary to have those 2 MIDI OUTs?

Thanks!!

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:06 pm

PCanas wrote:Hi!

I checked the FCB1010 and realised that it has only 1 MIDI OUT, right? So, how I would I control both keyboards with that? I'd have do connect it in M3's MIDI IN and then from M3's MIDI THRU to RD's MIDI IN, right? (or vice-versa). And then I would have to say that M3 works on MIDI channels x to y and RD works in the remaining channels, so I could send messages to one keyboard only, right?

Is there anything like the FCB but with 2 (or more) MIDI OUTs? Is it really necessary to have those 2 MIDI OUTs?

Thanks!!

Hi PCanas,

The MIDI IN on the FCB1010 is really only used when you are programming up the FCB1010 from a PC. Otherwise it acts as a MIDI merge input, and data received passes straight through the FCB1010 and is merged together with the FCB1010's MIDI events on the MIDI output socket.

So, as an example, suppose you have a computer based sequencer connected to your M3 via MIDI over USB, and suppose you have a "dumb" master keyboard connected to the M3 via conventional MIDI cables. You would route the MIDI OUT from the "dumb" master keyboard to the MIDI IN on the FCB1010, and the MIDI OUT from the FCB1010 would go to the M3's MIDI IN. The MIDI OUT from the M3 and the MIDI IN on the master keyboard would not be connected in this example.

Job done?

Best regards,
Rob

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:21 pm

Someone on the Pa2x/Pa800 forum has just bought the Roland PK-5A pedalboard. Looks very cool, has velocity triggering on a 1 octave pedalboard, but much more expensive that the Behringer FCB1010 foot controller board.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=43000

Regards,
Rob

PCanas · Post by **PCanas** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:22 pm

Rob Sherratt wrote:Hi PCanas,

(...)
So, as an example, suppose you have a computer based sequencer connected to your M3 via MIDI over USB, and suppose you have a "dumb" master keyboard connected to the M3 via conventional MIDI cables. You would route the MIDI OUT from the "dumb" master keyboard to the MIDI IN on the FCB1010, and the MIDI OUT from the FCB1010 would go to the M3's MIDI IN. The MIDI OUT from the M3 and the MIDI IN on the master keyboard would not be connected in this example.

Job done?

Best regards,
Rob

I'm afraid I didn't understand that one

basicly, what I want to do is to control both keyboards at once or just one of them, depending on the situation, with a pedal/foot controller; so, I want the pedal/fc to send a message/signal to one of the keyboards to do a certain thing; since the fcb has only one MIDI OUT (a way to send messages), I would need one of the ketboards to receive AND (re)transmit that message to the other keyboard, right?

Eventualy, that's what you said lol but I didn't understand it

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:57 pm

PCanas wrote:I'm afraid I didn't understand that one basicly, what I want to do is to control both keyboards at once or just one of them, depending on the situation, with a pedal/foot controller; so, I want the pedal/fc to send a message/signal to one of the keyboards to do a certain thing; since the fcb has only one MIDI OUT (a way to send messages), I would need one of the ketboards to receive AND (re)transmit that message to the other keyboard, right? Eventualy, that's what you said lol but I didn't understand it

I don't know of a footpedal unit with two independent MIDI OUT ports. I hope somebody else will speak up if they know of one.

The basic "problem" is that each keyboard has 16 channel MIDI capability, and if you chain everything together over a single MIDI interface, you will not be able to differentiate between channels on each keyboard. So I do agree that you do need two independent MIDI OUTs.

One option for use with a footpedal unit with a single MIDI OUT would be to get a programmable MIDI router "1 in 2 out" unit that is capable of mirroring and filtering messages from the footpedal and forwarding them selectively on the two MIDI OUTs for each of the two keyboards. Midi Solutions make one, but I have no experience of it, see:

http://www.midi-store.com/Midi-Solution ... 16801.html

Best regards,
Rob

PCanas · Post by **PCanas** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:32 pm

Rob Sherratt wrote: (...)
http://www.midi-store.com/Midi-Solution ... 16801.html

Best regards,
Rob

Looks good!

Another thing I forgot to ask: let's say I have something like those huge libraries from EWQL or something like that...those "little" things with 20Gb and more; of course I can't put them in M3's RAM, but can I connect an HD via USB or something to the M3 and use those libraries directly from the HD, or would it be too lagged?

Thanks!!

jmexio · Post by **jmexio** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:40 pm

No, the M3 is not able to stream from disk when sampling (that is, without even considering compatibility issues aka conversion of sample formats into something the M3 understands).

The way this works is, you can have anything on an external disk, but in order to use it you have to load everything into RAM, so forget about multi gig libraries, because you have a max of 320 MB.

Speaking of this, I can see that maybe streaming from USB stick would not be feasible because of access speeds, but considering that you can plug a normal USB hard drive... I mean Gigasampler had streaming over 10 years ago, running on much more modest hardware than what is available now. I think the streaming limitation has more to do with the design of the system/OS than anything else, and is probably not easy to implement....

But wouldn't it be awesome?

Cheers.