Vocorder help needed

osram · Post by **osram** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Hi - noobie alert.

I'm having a problem saving my voice on my R3 so I can play it back via the vocorder. What could I be doing wrong? It does have some sort of internal memory doesn't it?

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:28 pm

The R3 doesn't have a vocorder. It has a vocoder. You can't save your voice on your R3, because it doesn't do audio recording. It can save the frequency shape of your voice over time, and then use that shape to modify other sounds. But you will never hear the R3 reproduce the sound of your voice.

Let's say you buy a cabbage in the grocery store. Then you dip the cabbage in wax to make a mold of its shape. Then you remove the cabbage and eat it. You are left with a mold of a cabbage. Now you fill the mold with Lime flavored Jello and put it in the fridge to set up. In the morning you break the Jello out from the mold. You now have a green wobbley thing that look like a cabbage. But it's not a cabbage. You ate the cabbage and will s**t it out at some point. If you eat the Jello Cabbage, it does not taste like cabbage - it tastes of lime Jello, even though it's green and resembles a cabbage.

The R3 makes a mold of your voice and stores the mold. Your voice is thrown out immediately and is never stored. You can use that mold to shape other sounds. Those sounds are called the carrier. Your voice is called the source. The shape of your voice is called Formant Motion. The R3 stores the Formant Motion, not the source. The R3 can store 16 different slots of Formant Motion that can be recalled by programs to do vocoding without having to use the mic again with your voice.

slammah2012 · Post by **slammah2012** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:52 am

xmlguy wrote:The R3 doesn't have a vocorder. It has a vocoder. You can't save your voice on your R3, because it doesn't do audio recording. It can save the frequency shape of your voice over time, and then use that shape to modify other sounds. But you will never hear the R3 reproduce the sound of your voice.

Let's say you buy a cabbage in the grocery store. Then you dip the cabbage in wax to make a mold of its shape. Then you remove the cabbage and eat it. You are left with a mold of a cabbage. Now you fill the mold with Lime flavored Jello and put it in the fridge to set up. In the morning you break the Jello out from the mold. You now have a green wobbley thing that look like a cabbage. But it's not a cabbage. You ate the cabbage and will s**t it out at some point. If you eat the Jello Cabbage, it does not taste like cabbage - it tastes of lime Jello, even though it's green and resembles a cabbage.

The R3 makes a mold of your voice and stores the mold. Your voice is thrown out immediately and is never stored. You can use that mold to shape other sounds. Those sounds are called the carrier. Your voice is called the source. The shape of your voice is called Formant Motion. The R3 stores the Formant Motion, not the source. The R3 can store 16 different slots of Formant Motion that can be recalled by programs to do vocoding without having to use the mic again with your voice.

I still taste the cabbage....did I not use enough jello??

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:29 am

slammah2012 wrote:
xmlguy wrote:The R3 doesn't have a vocorder. It has a vocoder. You can't save your voice on your R3, because it doesn't do audio recording. It can save the frequency shape of your voice over time, and then use that shape to modify other sounds. But you will never hear the R3 reproduce the sound of your voice.

Let's say you buy a cabbage in the grocery store. Then you dip the cabbage in wax to make a mold of its shape. Then you remove the cabbage and eat it. You are left with a mold of a cabbage. Now you fill the mold with Lime flavored Jello and put it in the fridge to set up. In the morning you break the Jello out from the mold. You now have a green wobbley thing that look like a cabbage. But it's not a cabbage. You ate the cabbage and will s**t it out at some point. If you eat the Jello Cabbage, it does not taste like cabbage - it tastes of lime Jello, even though it's green and resembles a cabbage.

The R3 makes a mold of your voice and stores the mold. Your voice is thrown out immediately and is never stored. You can use that mold to shape other sounds. Those sounds are called the carrier. Your voice is called the source. The shape of your voice is called Formant Motion. The R3 stores the Formant Motion, not the source. The R3 can store 16 different slots of Formant Motion that can be recalled by programs to do vocoding without having to use the mic again with your voice.
I still taste the cabbage....did I not use enough jello??

Brush your teeth, please, particularly if you make sauerkraut or coleslaw.

Vintage Analog Vocoder is like this:

Dimitrije001 · Post by **Dimitrije001** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:53 pm

my god, the metaphores I'll see on this forum

virtualmidei · Post by **virtualmidei** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:20 am

So ur saying u cant record the vocoder ??

for example Inside cubase if ,, i open midi channel start to play it

and if i want to record the vocoder I cant??

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:47 am

Sure, you can record the result of the vocoder with Cubase. The vocoder produces audio. Cubase can record audio. But you have to connect the audio outputs of the R3 to the audio inputs of the computer, and then create a new audio track in Cubase with the proper inputs selected. Midi is not audio, so you'll never record the vocoder if you only have the USB or MIDI connections attached to Cubase.

The R3 cannot record the audio of your voice, but Cubase can.

virtualmidei · Post by **virtualmidei** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:12 am

Listen i have the connections like this .....

Korg R3 via usb to the pc ,,

and the korg R3 Outputs is connected to A Rme Fire Face 400 Sound Card

Inputs

virtualmidei · Post by **virtualmidei** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:30 am

i can play with the vocoder and all good

but i try like u told me to open a audio track and record when i put play nothing sounding

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:58 am

In Cubase you need to pick the correct audio inputs on your sound card.

Your audio interface (FF400) should show the input level, and you should be able to listen to the R3 from the headphone output on the audio interface, even without Cubase running. You need to adjust the input level on the audio interface. If you can hear the R3 on the FF400, then Cubase should record the same audio. You may not hear what Cubase records until you also set the audio output to be the FF400 outputs, and then monitor those outputs from the headphones.

None of this is a problem with the R3. The problem is likely to be the configuration of the FF400 or in Cubase. Can you record from a microphone and hear the result played back from Cubase? If not, then get that working first before trying to record and hear the R3.

slammah2012 · Post by **slammah2012** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:44 pm

Use your jello

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:24 pm

hi virtualmidei,

I supose you have Windows. You have to go to Settings/Sounddevice or the settings software from your sound card (the one you can set volume, equializer etc.) and select the recording device. Usually there you can select the different sondcard inputs like mic, line in, CD etc. Set the input to the one where your R3 is connected, play a normal sound and check if you can record it. When this works then you can go to record your vocoder sounds but remember:

The vocoder (in this case) is like an effects box: what you play on the keyboard (called carrier) is affected by parameters taken from the R3' microphone or audio input (the formant) in form of filter amplitudes (similar to volume). If you don't give a signal for the formant then you will have no output because there are no amplitudes (volume) for your carrier.

This is only a simple explanation about how the vocoder works... this amplitude info can NOT be saved as midi (at least here) so that is why you have to record the result as audio

virtualmidei · Post by **virtualmidei** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:43 pm

HELLO I READ ON THE MANUAL THAT FOR RECORDING I NEED THE MIDI IN MIDI OUT CABLES

IM TRYING WITH THE VIA USB CABLE CONNECTED TO THE PC

MAYBE THIS IS THE REASON IS NOT RECORDING??

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:01 pm

The USB carries MIDI data as a virtual MIDI port, so you don't need both. in fact the USB is better than the MIDI connection because it has a much higher data rate.

MIDI only carries data - no audio. MIDI is a language that computers and keyboards use that literally contains just which notes are pressed, which controllers are changed, timing synchronisation information... thats it.

so when you record MIDI for example of a synth performance, you have to send that MIDI back to the synth in order to hear it that way. if you sent it to another synth it would sound different.

audio tracks are an actual recording of how something sounds. for example a guitar or an organ or a voice.

if you record the MIDI from vocoding, it will only take the notes pressed, and modwheel/pitchbend/other controller changes. when you play it back to the R3, it will still play, but you won't hear anything! this is because you are not speaking into it. the MIDI data has no way to record your voice so you'd either need to record your voice to another audio track and route that out from an audio interface back into the R3's input, or even better, just sing/speak into it.

using MIDI with vocoders is useful, because it means you can free up your hands not having to worry about pressing the right notes - and you can spend more time concentrating on singing or speaking the right words.

you need to record the audio output of the R3 to an audio track in your sequencer software e.g. cubase.
if you have already recorded the MIDI and have it set up to go back to the synth/R3, when you hit record the MIDI will be sent back to the R3 so you can just sing as I explained above - without having to press the notes, because that has been recorded in MIDI. the only thing it couldn't take was your voice. hence why you now need to record the vocoder to an audio track whilst you sing.

Alternatively you could just not use the MIDI at all and record straight to an audio track whilst singing and playing the right notes. remember you need to set up the audio track's input. in cubase this is done in the track properties on the left hand panel of the sequencer window.

virtualmidei · Post by **virtualmidei** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:27 am

thx now i fix this all good now

i record already

but now when i restart my pc and trying to play with the korg R3

is playing only on mono now

only in my left speaker i can listen the korg playing

do u now something about this??

In the inputs of my Rme sound card i can see the 2 signals but on the outputs only left side signal

why can be??