Hello !!! Since I use 3-4 different combis for one song, the switching from one to another creates the silence that lasts only for a second but is still very sudden and annoying. (I am using damper pedal for switching)
Is there any workaround for stopping TR from breaking /muting sound while changing combis?
TR breaking /muting sound while changing combis
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
I'm sorry, but there's no way to stop that "breaking sound" thing. It's common in all the keyboards outta here (I think that the Roland Fantom G only has that "option"; actually the Oberheim MC3000 owns it too, but it's a master keyboard). You have to be really good with your damper pedal trying to avoid that annoying silence, man 
Korg TR-88
Problem solved by using a second keyboard to get more keys so that different sounds are assigned to them trough the appropriate MIDI channels. Simple and effective. -
kanthos
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:41 pm
- Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
Well, that still won't help you if you need to switch combis.
Better solution: play in sequencer mode. Search around for threads on how to set this up and on why this is a good way to do it.
Better solution: play in sequencer mode. Search around for threads on how to set this up and on why this is a good way to do it.
Keyboard Rig: Korg Kronos, Moog Sub 37, Waldorf Blofeld Module, Neo Instruments Ventilator II, Moog MiniFooger Delay, Strymon BigSky, Roland KC-150, Mackie 802-VLZ4 Mixer
Thank you for the advice Kanthos. (The funny thing is that I came with the idea by reading one of your posts on a similar subject.)kanthos wrote:Well, that still won't help you if you need to switch combis.
Better solution: play in sequencer mode. Search around for threads on how to set this up and on why this is a good way to do it.
For now I am satisfied with this method and there is no need to change combis in the middle of the song. The TR offers 8 timbres (…and more with “doubling” option) that are now extended to 76+61 keys (TR 76+ROLAND D50). There is even more “space” when using different program option on D 50 for positioning TR sounds on it and switching trough them as the song goes on. I see no limits to it when it comes to performing LIVE ……. but, since I have lot of respect for you, I would like you to explain why, in your opinion, the “sequencer mode” is better???
( I use 90% of samples and very few KORG sounds in my combis )
-
kanthos
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:41 pm
- Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
I wouldn't say sequencer mode is better; it just serves a different purpose when playing live than combi mode does.
The advantage of combi mode is that it can output on multiple channels at once, since all 8 timbres in combi mode are always active (unless their type is set to OFF, of course). The disadvantages are that the gap in audio when changing combis is unavoidable, and that you can't really change which timbres are sounding, other than playing on a different area of the TR or on a different keyboard altogether. I play with two keyboards and a laptop, but when I used to only use the two keyboards and combi mode, I'd hit situations fairly often where I had 4 different (possibly layered) sounds to use for a song, and each was restricted to a small keyrange so that I didn't have to switch combis mid-song.
Sequencer mode is basically the perfect compliment to combi mode. It can only output on one channel at a time, so you have to rely on the capabilities of your other devices if you want to layer sounds from other sources but trigger them from the TR. On the other hand, I can switch the sounds the TR produces, and the channel it transmits on, by hitting the INC or DEC button to select the next or previous track, and I can do that without stopping any audio the TR is already playing, so its transitions between sounds are really smooth.
The other advantage of sequencer mode is an organizational one. For combi mode, I'd have a combi (or more) for each song, and when preparing for a specific gig, I'd copy the combis in order to A-000, A-001, etc, so I could move through them in order. With sequencer mode, I have the SNG files stored on an SD card, and when preparing for a gig, I load them one at a time in order and then save a SNG containing everything for the gig. I prefer the latter method since I'm not making any permanent changes to the state of the keyboard that I'd want to undo later (i.e. in combi mode, post-gig, I'd copy an empty combi to all the combi slots I used for the gig, to get it back to a clean state). In sequencer mode, to clean up, I just power off the TR. Another advantage is that in my scenario, playing for a worship band, it's not uncommon to have a prayer or have the lead vocalist say something in between songs, and they often like to have a pad under that. Each of my SNG files contains *two* sequencer songs - one for the actual song that we're singing and another where I've used a different pad sound on all 16 tracks. Since I'm loading SNG files, and not the individual songs within those files, it makes it really easy to build a setlist that's TUNE, PAD, TUNE, PAD, TUNE, PAD, etc. That'd be slower in combi mode.
For my purposes, I can get around most of the layering by either having my laptop use whichever MIDI channel I need (it's really easy to set up the exact layers you want in Forte) and by being a bit clever as to which channels I layer on my Nord, making sure to play the Nord (which is the keyboard with the better feel anyway) as much as possible.
As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if you're switching sounds a lot, can't afford the downtime to switch combis mid-song, and don't have a better way to turn sounds on or off or otherwise change what you're playing, sequencer mode is the way to go. If you tend to use a few sounds and stick with them through an entire song, or if your other gear makes it easy to change the MIDI channel you're sending on the fly, without interruptions, combi mode is probably better, especially if you need to send on multiple MIDI channels.
The advantage of combi mode is that it can output on multiple channels at once, since all 8 timbres in combi mode are always active (unless their type is set to OFF, of course). The disadvantages are that the gap in audio when changing combis is unavoidable, and that you can't really change which timbres are sounding, other than playing on a different area of the TR or on a different keyboard altogether. I play with two keyboards and a laptop, but when I used to only use the two keyboards and combi mode, I'd hit situations fairly often where I had 4 different (possibly layered) sounds to use for a song, and each was restricted to a small keyrange so that I didn't have to switch combis mid-song.
Sequencer mode is basically the perfect compliment to combi mode. It can only output on one channel at a time, so you have to rely on the capabilities of your other devices if you want to layer sounds from other sources but trigger them from the TR. On the other hand, I can switch the sounds the TR produces, and the channel it transmits on, by hitting the INC or DEC button to select the next or previous track, and I can do that without stopping any audio the TR is already playing, so its transitions between sounds are really smooth.
The other advantage of sequencer mode is an organizational one. For combi mode, I'd have a combi (or more) for each song, and when preparing for a specific gig, I'd copy the combis in order to A-000, A-001, etc, so I could move through them in order. With sequencer mode, I have the SNG files stored on an SD card, and when preparing for a gig, I load them one at a time in order and then save a SNG containing everything for the gig. I prefer the latter method since I'm not making any permanent changes to the state of the keyboard that I'd want to undo later (i.e. in combi mode, post-gig, I'd copy an empty combi to all the combi slots I used for the gig, to get it back to a clean state). In sequencer mode, to clean up, I just power off the TR. Another advantage is that in my scenario, playing for a worship band, it's not uncommon to have a prayer or have the lead vocalist say something in between songs, and they often like to have a pad under that. Each of my SNG files contains *two* sequencer songs - one for the actual song that we're singing and another where I've used a different pad sound on all 16 tracks. Since I'm loading SNG files, and not the individual songs within those files, it makes it really easy to build a setlist that's TUNE, PAD, TUNE, PAD, TUNE, PAD, etc. That'd be slower in combi mode.
For my purposes, I can get around most of the layering by either having my laptop use whichever MIDI channel I need (it's really easy to set up the exact layers you want in Forte) and by being a bit clever as to which channels I layer on my Nord, making sure to play the Nord (which is the keyboard with the better feel anyway) as much as possible.
As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if you're switching sounds a lot, can't afford the downtime to switch combis mid-song, and don't have a better way to turn sounds on or off or otherwise change what you're playing, sequencer mode is the way to go. If you tend to use a few sounds and stick with them through an entire song, or if your other gear makes it easy to change the MIDI channel you're sending on the fly, without interruptions, combi mode is probably better, especially if you need to send on multiple MIDI channels.
Keyboard Rig: Korg Kronos, Moog Sub 37, Waldorf Blofeld Module, Neo Instruments Ventilator II, Moog MiniFooger Delay, Strymon BigSky, Roland KC-150, Mackie 802-VLZ4 Mixer
Very impressive elaboration Khantos, I am re-impressed by your experience and methodology.
I must say that double keyboard (MIDI send-receive mode) allowed me that I DO NOT NEED to switch combis mid-song but to play comfortably and relaxed. As I said, 8 timbres (…and more) for COMBI, that represents one entire song, is enough for my kind of music. At the end of the song I simply switch to next COMBI/SONG and I go on. In my music there are no surprises or changes regarding sounds, there can be only some improvisation in arrangement but that’s it.
Still, after your presentation of the sequencer mode, I admit to have some curiosity toward it, especially where the organizing part is regarded. I will surely give it a try.
Than you once again.
I must say that double keyboard (MIDI send-receive mode) allowed me that I DO NOT NEED to switch combis mid-song but to play comfortably and relaxed. As I said, 8 timbres (…and more) for COMBI, that represents one entire song, is enough for my kind of music. At the end of the song I simply switch to next COMBI/SONG and I go on. In my music there are no surprises or changes regarding sounds, there can be only some improvisation in arrangement but that’s it.
Still, after your presentation of the sequencer mode, I admit to have some curiosity toward it, especially where the organizing part is regarded. I will surely give it a try.
Than you once again.
-
kanthos
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:41 pm
- Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
Yeah, I can't handle surprises or changes (other than the pad between songs thing, which isn't much of a surprise since I design my setlist around that now). I don't think I have any songs where I'd *need* to switch combis, but I do have a number that use 4 different parts, either forcing me to use small key ranges (half of a 61-key keyboard isn't that much, especially since when I pad, I like to do it over a large range of notes most of the time), or reduce the number of parts I use.
Honestly, if you're not running into the limitations of combi mode, don't bother switching. Stay with what you're comfortable with. You can just keep sequencer mode in in mind if that's ever not good enough.
Honestly, if you're not running into the limitations of combi mode, don't bother switching. Stay with what you're comfortable with. You can just keep sequencer mode in in mind if that's ever not good enough.
Keyboard Rig: Korg Kronos, Moog Sub 37, Waldorf Blofeld Module, Neo Instruments Ventilator II, Moog MiniFooger Delay, Strymon BigSky, Roland KC-150, Mackie 802-VLZ4 Mixer