Does PCM RAM mean Space for storing samples and sounds?

moebrand · Post by **moebrand** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:55 am

Hi everyone,
I am just amazed and wondering why Korg would not let Pa800 users the option to store there style sets on a usb hard drive and use them from there rather than loading it to the keyboard that does not have enough memory.
Finally I got so happy that I learned merging sets after searching and asking for help over the last 5 months and now I am trying to merge some sets, but I am facing the there is not enough PCM Memory issue.
It's really frustrating.
By the way doesn't RAM stand for Random Access Memory?
Why Pa800 uses RAM for storing Samples and sounds?
Please Korg Do something.
Moebrand

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:27 am

Hi Moe, i dont know, i think somehow you mixed the points...RAM is actually
that Random Access Memory and thats what it does and how it works on Korg.
As for playing directly from USB stick you know its not possible and it doesnt
make any sense...same as Direct from FD, you cannot just play the style, you
need to load other things for the style to work proper.

moebrand · Post by **moebrand** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:29 am

Hi Basaristudios,
My apologies since my previous post is a bit mixed up.
The reason I asked if it was possible to play the beats and sounds directly from a usb source is just a practical joke because I don't know why Pa800 has only 64MB of Ram , which is pretty small, nowadays even cheap cell phones have bigger memories, don't they?
Please Korg DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Thanks!
moebrand

Jano · Post by **Jano** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:28 am

Sarcasm! Korg pa 2X contains 256 MB of memory and it's that heavy!!
What about 2 Gbyte how mutch would it then weight ha???

amer123 · Post by **amer123** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:22 pm

Is'nt that possible on a Yamaha?
If i remember correctly, when i inserted my usb drive into a tyros in the store, a little tab popped up, and all i had to do was open the tab and select the style! no loading required!
Why can't korg implement such a feature as an update?

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:08 pm

I dont know but in reality if one really knows (which i dont believe many know)
how to actually menage and organize samples on the machine 256 MB RAM is
most of the times doubble then what we need. I've seen and combined and
edited many of the so called Great sets up in the range of over 200MB and
when i finished them it came down to 80MB of samples and the Set playing
exactly the same as the original (in this case way better cuz of Mixing).
I know we wanna Load Goliath in it and Kontakt and Vienna Symphony but
thats besides the point, we are talking about closed synth, not a computer.
What is the point of Loading 60MB DrumKit when one can do a better job
then just Loading a 5 MB DrumKit. Thru years i've met many people on the
forum and helped many. Usually the people asking for more RAM is the people
that dont know how to menage/edit Samples and the easier way of doing is
just load sets over one another instead of Editing even though 80% of those
samples in the Set are not used anywhere. That way knowledge of working
is not needed but you just put everything on top of the other. Few people in
here that i know they know what are they doing never mentioned RAM in here.
This is not meant to offend anyone but to make lifes easier. Yes, i am all
up for more RAM too but not on a machine like this as it is since RAM wont
do much in here. If you have the time to sit down and study the structure
and way of working with samples then edit and organize your set a little
you will be pleasantly surprised.

moebrand · Post by **moebrand** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:56 am

Dear Basaristudios,
I am having hard time editing sets.
I have a set and its size was 58.3 MB .
I checked the styles and all the tracks and user sounds and Drum kits used for them and wrote them down, Then I erased the sounds that were not used for the styles.
I did all the changes using my Pa800 while the usb drive was hooked up and I did all the edits in there.
While I checked my new set that I got rid of a lot of sounds , surprisingly the size of my new set was bigger than before and it showed as 65.5 MB.
I thought this way I could have a lot of space for loading more user sounds for merging new styles, but I don't know why the set got bigger.
Is there something I did wrong?
Thanks!
Moebrand

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:22 am

Remember this, Korg's structure is very messed up, its complicated as flock:
It starts like this:
Style<Sound/Drum<BankofSounds<CoreSound<KMP<KSF<PCM} where the
KSF/PCM is Genesis...the Begining of all. Now, if only ONE of those is messed
up the whole style is messed up. The point: Deleting a Style wont free RAM,
Deleting a Sound wont free RAM, Deleting a performance wont free RAM...now:
if you deleted all of the above the RAM Sound/KMP is still in RAM and takes space.
If you deleted the KMP the KSF's ARE STILL IN RAM!!! If they are actually used
in another KMP or DK. You have to start from the ROOT itself...the Genesis.
You first find which Sound in SoundMode you dont want...then you find out
which KMP it uses, after you delete the PCG in MEDIA Mode you go into record
and you delete the KMP...now this is where you are screwed...you might deleted
the KMP but then you see that the free RAM is still the same...which means those
KSFs that were used in the KMP you deleted were also used in another.
Solution? Now it even gets more Screwed up cuz there is NOT one! You
either have to check manually (thats if you planing on suicide) or hit DELETE
the Samples themselfs one by one (if you wrote before you deleted the KMP).
And only by WRITING this i am already iritated, forget about actually doing it,
i've been testing it, doing it, working on it for years, came to every bottom,
now i probably know more then the people that created THAT but what for?
My hair got gray and nothing else...Korg dont care nor anyone else.
Next machine will probably even more complicated so basically thats what
it is...we are just screwed up. Not many people know the process of all this
and when they ask for help or when they require estimate for combining sets
they get very dissapointed.
Now back to you, i really have no clue how the hell your set got bigger,
i personally have no explanation, i'll think about it and see if something comes up.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:24 am

Now something came to my mind, you are saying THE USB STICK WAS IN
while you were doing it and YOU DID ALL YOUR CHANGES IN THERE...meaning?:
You were saving your changes??? Which also means if there were 2 sounds
modified and also with different names using the same KMP now got saved
twice in the new set and thats why you are getting a bigger sized set.

moebrand · Post by **moebrand** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:16 am

Dear Basaristudios,
I did not delete the whole set, I loaded the set first and inspected each single track for user sounds and DKs.
After I went to media F Drive and opened the same set there and then opened the sound folder and checked the user banks and deleted the sounds that were not used in any styles that I inspected before.
After erasing all those sounds, the set on my usb GOT BIGGER in size than what it was on my PC before.
Anyways, Thanks a lot for your patience and explanations.
I am sure Korg does not provide such detailed information and it's obvious from their poor manuals.
I will not give up though and try to succeed.
Thanks!
Moebrand

Demonstrator · Post by **Demonstrator** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:46 pm

Hi all.
Wanted to add something.
Seems like Moebrand has almost the same problem as I had.
It is not impossible to upgrade your Ram capacity.
You have to do and go through almost the same structure as PA2x's upgration.
What I dont understand is that if it is possible to upgrade the Ram on Pa800 why dont Korg make it official as an un recommended option just like intalling a HD drive and make it possible on the thier workshops in each country.
Regards

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Demonstrator wrote: What I dont understand is that if it is possible to upgrade the Ram on Pa800 why dont Korg make it official as an un recommended option

because that's a major selling feature for PA2xpro

Demonstrator · Post by **Demonstrator** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:06 pm

Assyrianpianist wrote:
Demonstrator wrote: What I dont understand is that if it is possible to upgrade the Ram on Pa800 why dont Korg make it official as an un recommended option
because that's a major selling feature for PA2xpro

Yes but if they sell it for Pa800 as will they wont lose anything.

moebrand · Post by **moebrand** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:48 pm

Hi Demonstrator,
That is actually a good suggestion and hope korg would do it as soon as possible.
They have the option of installing the KOrg hard drive, but it would not be useful for loading and storing sets, they are good for storing MP3s, what a joke!
Thanks!
Moebrand

mrniceneasy · Post by **mrniceneasy** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:42 pm

Hi moebrand. What I do for my Sets is to import only the samples of major Instruments, a good Alto Sax ,Tenor Sax, Trumpet, Stringed Instruments, Choir etc, etc and then I blend them with samples from Rom to create nice voices to add to my Performance Banks. I have pa2x with 128mb Ram and I've never been anyway near that. I've not even been close to considering buying the 256mb card.... I do appreciate that you only have 64mb Ram but it can be more than enough for individual Sets using the above method. I save my Sets as BKP files which only load everything that is needed and I load to a clean Ram. I don't even attempt to merge Sets. It's like beating yourself up and I prefer to use my time doing other things. It's quicker and easier and more fun to create new Set's IMHO. Just trying to be helpful.