Moving from DAW to Workstation: Presales Questions (M3 v XF)

[apex]

Shakil,

Thanks a ton for breaking down how the effects systems work on the Roland/Korg/Yamaha workstations... it was very helpful. I feel the Korg approach is the most flexible, but could you clear something up regarding the Motif approach? I know in pattern/song mode the Motif can have a maximum of 8 parts with x2 insert effects applied at a time (and that these effects are taken directly from the Voice mode) and all 16 parts do have EQ, reverb and chorus. Regarding the other 8 parts w/o insert effects, can you rout them through first 8 parts’ effects in any way, or do they ONLY have access to the EQ/Verb/Chorus?

Thanks!

I'll turn on the XS rack and let you know in just a sec. (try to at least)

[Jive Talking Robot]

^^^Many thanks Apex! I appreciate it. I am still trying to find this in the manual as well.

[apex]

I've run into a small midi issue. So I'm having problems talking to the editor (xs rack editor) from my controller. It's a problem with the USB midi and regular midi.... they are conflicting. I'll get back to you soon.

[apex]

Shakil,

Thanks a ton for breaking down how the effects systems work on the Roland/Korg/Yamaha workstations... it was very helpful. I feel the Korg approach is the most flexible, but could you clear something up regarding the Motif approach? I know in pattern/song mode the Motif can have a maximum of 8 parts with x2 insert effects applied at a time (and that these effects are taken directly from the Voice mode) and all 16 parts do have EQ, reverb and chorus. Regarding the other 8 parts w/o insert effects, can you rout them through first 8 parts’ effects in any way, or do they ONLY have access to the EQ/Verb/Chorus?

Thanks!

I'll turn on the XS rack and let you know in just a sec. (try to at least)

The answer is no. You have to actually choose the eight voices that can have the two insert effects applied. If you want to add a ninth, it makes you remove on the eight. Once you get to 8 total. The insert effect menu is no longer available for the other voices. You can then only control the send levels to the chorus and reverb.

Hope this helps you out.

[kanthos]

Shakil,

Thanks a ton for breaking down how the effects systems work on the Roland/Korg/Yamaha workstations... it was very helpful. I feel the Korg approach is the most flexible, but could you clear something up regarding the Motif approach? I know in pattern/song mode the Motif can have a maximum of 8 parts with x2 insert effects applied at a time (and that these effects are taken directly from the Voice mode) and all 16 parts do have EQ, reverb and chorus. Regarding the other 8 parts w/o insert effects, can you rout them through first 8 parts’ effects in any way, or do they ONLY have access to the EQ/Verb/Chorus?

Thanks!

To add to what apex told you, you also can't control the amounts of each individual sound that get sent to the chorus and reverb. The chorus and reverb are exactly like master effects on the M3 (all parts get mixed together and a portion of that mixed signal goes into the chorus and reverb units).

[kanthos]

I've run into a small midi issue. So I'm having problems talking to the editor (xs rack editor) from my controller. It's a problem with the USB midi and regular midi.... they are conflicting. I'll get back to you soon.

Some keyboards ignore the MIDI ports while connected to a computer via USB; wouldn't surprise me if the XS does as well.

[apex]

I've run into a small midi issue. So I'm having problems talking to the editor (xs rack editor) from my controller. It's a problem with the USB midi and regular midi.... they are conflicting. I'll get back to you soon.

Some keyboards ignore the MIDI ports while connected to a computer via USB; wouldn't surprise me if the XS does as well.

I have it figured out now...

[Shakil]

Shakil,

Thanks a ton for breaking down how the effects systems work on the Roland/Korg/Yamaha workstations... it was very helpful. I feel the Korg approach is the most flexible, but could you clear something up regarding the Motif approach? I know in pattern/song mode the Motif can have a maximum of 8 parts with x2 insert effects applied at a time (and that these effects are taken directly from the Voice mode) and all 16 parts do have EQ, reverb and chorus. Regarding the other 8 parts w/o insert effects, can you rout them through first 8 parts’ effects in any way, or do they ONLY have access to the EQ/Verb/Chorus?

Thanks!

To add to what apex told you, you also can't control the amounts of each individual sound that get sent to the chorus and reverb. The chorus and reverb are exactly like master effects on the M3 (all parts get mixed together and a portion of that mixed signal goes into the chorus and reverb units).

Jive.. As Apex confirmed, you can't route multiple parts through same IFX on Motif. Just like Fantom-G, the IFXs are tied to program/patch, not the song mix. Or, I should say, just like Motif, the PFX in Fantom-G are tied to patch, not the song mix, because YAMAHA has this approach for decades, but ROLAND Just adopted this flawed approach with Fantom-G.

Kanthos, yes the Chorus and Reverb processors on Motif, Fantom and M3 are global effects. But, I think the chorus and reverb amounts can be set for each of the 16 parts. The advantage of M3 over Fantom and Motif is that, the processors in place of Chorus and Reverb are called Master Effects. These can be ANY of effects type, not just Chorus and Reverb.

[mbncp]

[.]I want to invest in my first workstation with the idea that I could compose a whole song on it w/o having to fire up a DAW[..]

Is that for some kind of Living in the Past TV show ?

[Jive Talking Robot]

[.]I want to invest in my first workstation with the idea that I could compose a whole song on it w/o having to fire up a DAW[..]

Is that for some kind of Living in the Past TV show ?

I have been using computers to control synths since Opcode Vision and have had a computer based DAW since 2000 (I am a effects compositor and post production flim/video editor by trade) - I currently have a sweet ITB setup with NI/Spectrasonics/Arturia softsynths with a ReMote SL and varous other control surfaces.

Then one day I discovered the Elektron MachineDrum and I realized how satisfying and quick composing outside of the box can be - I actually felt like I was playing not programming.

As I mentioned to Shakil on the Yamaha forum, I just want a brake from the DAW/Softsynth world for a bit so I can pour my energies in to learning one single instrument inside and out. After years of wondering why anyone in the right mind would buy a workstaion, I FINALLY “get” why people use them - they are fun, they are fast, they are stable and there is a lot of hard-wired workflow. Are they limited and do you compromise on features? Sure. But, as I said, I actually enjoy limitiations as they can keep you focused and, in some ways, very creative.

[Jive Talking Robot]

Apex - above and beyond! I really appreciate you trying - you have been an awesome help on this thread, so a virtual beer for you:

To add to what apex told you, you also can't control the amounts of each individual sound that get sent to the chorus and reverb. The chorus and reverb are exactly like master effects on the M3 (all parts get mixed together and a portion of that mixed signal goes into the chorus and reverb units).

Kanthos, yes the Chorus and Reverb processors on Motif, Fantom and M3 are global effects. But, I think the chorus and reverb amounts can be set for each of the 16 parts. The advantage of M3 over Fantom and Motif is that, the processors in place of Chorus and Reverb are called Master Effects. These can be ANY of effects type, not just Chorus and Reverb.

Shakil, kanthos - as always, thanks for the clarification!

Re: the Verb/Chorus - I watched the Motif XS video last night that the Yamaha team sent me, and it seems to me that the Verb and Chorus each have send and recieve on them to control the amout that hit the 16 parts... is this what you are referring to?

I also found it interesting that Yamaha does not actually mean "Chorus" for their Chorus effects, and that this group contained a number of other effects as well (including delays).

[Shakil]

Jive, Yes, the Chorus block in Motif can load any effect algorithm, but the Reverb block loads only reverb and spatial type effects.

Yes, chorus and reverb send levels from each of 16 parts, but only one return level from reverb and chorus to master effect block.

[Jive Talking Robot]

Jive, Yes, the Chorus block in Motif can load any effect algorithm, but the Reverb block loads only reverb and spatial type effects.

Yes, chorus and reverb send levels from each of 16 parts, but only one return level from reverb and chorus to master effect block.

Cheers - thanks for clearing that up.

The one downside of workstations - no "demo" to download and try out. I am happy both systems have lots of online documentation/video and excellent user communities... I could never get these kind of clear, real world answers in a music store or from an online reseller, so thank you all for helping a stranger out.

[cello]

Just a thought JTR - (apologies if you've already done it!) - but, you could download the M3 Editor from the Korg website (v2.2.1 just released) and whilst it won't 'do' anything in terms of sound production, it might give you some further insight into what the M3's all about?

As I say, just a thought!

[Jive Talking Robot]

Just a thought JTR - (apologies if you've already done it!) - but, you could download the M3 Editor from the Korg website (v2.2.1 just released) and whilst it won't 'do' anything in terms of sound production, it might give you some further insight into what the M3's all about?

As I say, just a thought!

Holy smokes... it never once occured to me that I could do that! That's actually a great idea. I am going to DL it this evening and walk through it... thanks for suggesting it!