What part of a program doesn't go into a combi

[rootsgroup]

Would like some quick advice if anyone can.

I am overwriting programs in combis with others, and the program I put in does not sound like it did in program mode.

I don't have any kind of diagram to illustrate the path that all of this takes, does anybody have such a thing?

I realize that that the effects don't necessarily go along when you use a program in combi mode, but the timbre of the program is changing as well.

I'm not seeing how to set up the things in a combi that will ensure that when I put a program in, it will sound the same as it did in program mode.

I hope I'm making myself clear. Thanks for any help at all.

[X-Trade]

The only one that has a direct effect on the sound is the effects.
The programs are often 'beefed up' with compression, or the master EQ settings.

Other things that don't go in include primarily the arpeggiator settings (again, like effectsthis is global to the mode. there are only up to two arpeggiators at once), and the controller assignments.

There are other settings that you may want to check, in the 'prm' tabs you can transpose a timbre down or up, change the pitch bend range, and even set it to use only one of the (up to) two oscillators that makes up the program.

And in the 'MIDI' tabs, you have various MIDI message filters for each timbre, setting which controls it does and does not respond to. Similarly the KeyZ and VelZ pages let you set key and velocity ranges in which a timbre sounds.

[rootsgroup]

Thanks for the reply!

When you put a program into a combi, then the complete effects setup doesn't go with it, and/or the effects set up in the combi might replace it or confuse it?

[rootsgroup]

Ok, I keep working on this problem with out much success, but I've got this idea.

Say i have four programs for one song that I want to use. I can't transfer them to a combi without trashing out the effect settings (apparently).

So if I relocate them so they are consecutive, by opening up a neighboring slot thru the use of the initial program (d127) and shuffling them around then i can maintain all the original effects? Or not?

Is there just one "insert effects" bus in the whole machine, or one for program, another for combi, or?

The more I work with this, the more i get screwed up. I've read thru the owner's manual, have the parameter guide, but damned if I can find out about this.

Thanks in advance for advice anyone might give.

[Synastikki]

The effect processor is 4 slotted so it has 1 Inser effect, 2 master effects and the master-EQ... So in program mode you have these for one program, but in combi mode these are used for all 1-8 progs inside the combi.

[X-Trade]

In program mode that single program you have loaded has access to the 1 insert effect, two master effects, and master EQ.

In combi mode or song/seq mode, that entire combi only has use of the same 1 IFX, 2 MFX, and the MEQ.

MFX are great for reverb, delay, chorus, and other effects which can be applied across a number of tracks which have a distinct 'wet' and 'dry' signal. Because the MFX (like the FX Send bus on a mixer) only processes the wet signal, and the dry signal passes through the 'mixer' without touching the FX. you can send varying amounts of each program through to each MFX slot just like you do on the FX send busses on a mixer too. And there is a return control... it really is modelled off a studio console mixer format.

The IFX on the other hand is more useful for effects which take over the stream - i.e. 'insert' or 'direct' 100% wet effects, as opposed to 'send' effects. for example compression, additional EQ, amp simulation, etc.
But you can use reverb or delay or chorus or flange or whatever here too if you need to. It all depends what you need most in your song/combi.

Anyway, in order to make the TR and LE (and X50 and microX) cheap, this is the one major thing Korg dropped - four of the IFX processors. The other 'full' Triton series workstations have five insert effects, which allows a lot more flexibility. Still, many programs could use three to five IFX so you couldn't get the full set of IFX into a combi or song, but when you hear how good the TR sounds compared to the older sound set, you almost get the impression that 'less certainly is more', and you could probably do more with less.

There are also the mono-dual chain effects which can help when you're having to combine or save on effects space.

[rootsgroup]

"In combi mode or song/seq mode, that entire combi only has use of the same 1 IFX, 2 MFX, and the MEQ."

Thank you x-trade, that's what I was wanting to know!

Now I see why i was losing the rotary sound in my organ patches, And the piano programs would go to crap and so on. When you plop a program into an already established combi, that program gets its effects changed to the settings of the effects processor set up of the combi.

All righty! And I'm guessing the same situation exists when you utilize the sequencer method of quick program assignment?

So I'll have some big time effects set-up to do when I want quality organ on my TR while the midi contoller inputs to a piano program, since just one effects processor has to do a good job on both.

So if I can avoid playing both sounds simultaneously, maybe lining up the program #'s consecutively would be my easiest choice. I'm way more impressed with the program effects in there already as opposed to anything I might cobble up.

Thanks again for the explanation guys,

rootsgroup

[billbaker]

It may not be a *dramatic* amount of work to be done. You mainly have to pay attention to the insert effects.

Organ typically gets the rotary effect.

Piano gets EQ, maybe compression.

Most instruments have their own "flavor" of one or two inserts. Depending on how you stack the FX some programs can share the same effects. If you're using Rotary > Exciter > Plate Reverb and have checked the boxes to make a chain then instruments can be inserted at (FX routing page) into the chain at any point. Note though that once they ar in they aren't out until the end.

Looking at how the inserts are set up in Program mode will give you a good idea of what you have to do in Combi mode; once you've done it a few times "re-beefing" your FX palate will get to be routine.

I use Master Effects in combi mode to set the voices in a spatial sense (reverb) thicken (chorus or very slight detune - each around 15-20% wet) and boost in master EQ for overall balance against other voices (not more than 10dB bass and ~7 mid/treble.)

BB