Strider's music with the O86... er, Oasys

[Strider]

Howdy:

Here's a link to some new stuff created using the Oasys-

http://sylahnsedel086.bandcamp.com/

The bottom of that Web page (below the song list) includes some tongue-in-cheek remarks regarding the project.

If you're not especially familiar with "The Well-Tempered Clavier", the first track, Prelude in C, is probably the least interesting of the bunch. Maybe just pick some at random... I like the Prelude in F minor-

http://sylahnsedel086.bandcamp.com/trac ... or-bwv-857

And the fugue in C-sharp minor-

http://sylahnsedel086.bandcamp.com/trac ... or-bwv-849


The project name is, of course, a reference to the fact that Korg "86ed" the Oasys. In fact, I never seem to call it "the Oasys" anymore, it's always "the O86" to me now.

Comments, derision, insults welcome and expected.

[UCanDream]

The Korg "O86".....LOL, Strider! I love it, man.

In your remarks, "Although I could have played them perfectly (timing and velocity accuracy more precise than the limits of human hearing), I have incorporated minor fluctuations, or "errors", in note timing and volume to help soothe the idiosyncratic auditory system of homo sapiens," I appreciated that you took into account the tempermental peculiarity within the senses of all of us stupid monkeys. Your grace and charm with diction is only second to your great sense of humor...which, until now, I did not realize you had.

And on a serious note, Bravo! for some excellent playing. I'm not well acquainted with much classical music but it sounded great. Something in that playing of yours tells me you are a lot more disciplined than I am.

Keep up the fantastic playing!
UCanDream

[Strider]

I did not "play" these performances in the traditional sense. I "programmed" them.

Music is played in the brain. After that, it's all technology. My fingers are not programmed to play piano well, so I program electronic instruments to play sounds the way I want to hear them.

Trying to find a recording of "The Well-Tempered Clavier" that has good quality sound, and in which the performance is not in some manner eccentric, is very difficult. So I made my own. My intention is that it is true to the manuscript, as interpreted by tradition and scholarship (and with a few tasteful nods to Glenn Gould). I hope it is. If it is not, I would be pleased to correct any errors that are found.


Note precision had to be "humanized" slightly to avoid some odd acoustic consequences. My guess is that the sound problems pertained to phasing issues with samples in the Oasys. Staggering the note timing seemed to rectify the problems I heard.

Further staggering of the notes improved the general "listenability" of the pieces. Too much precision does not make for happy ears. This staggering of notes is not to be confused with the levels of timing and velocity inaccuracy common to live human performance; it is much more minuscule. It has nothing at all to do with the indulgent and melodramatic impositions common to "interpretive" performers. Sometimes I think "interpretation" is a cover for the limits of a performer's technical accuracy; the ripples of imperfection on the glassy ocean of sound are rendered insignificant, if not undetectable, by crashing waves of affectation. That is probably a reasonable technique, but it should be admitted clearly and up-front and not used as a cover. Where ego is involved, truth is obscured.


To my mind, this project (which is just groundwork or a side-effect of another, more ambitious project) raises again the issues of "the work of art in the age of mechanical reproduction" in a way not quite known to Walter Benjamin. This work is not simply a recording, but a "performance" mechanically prescribed in every detail. While it is clear that not every listener will like or agree with my choices, it is just as certain that choices were made regarding every aspect of the "performance".


The comments attributed to Sylahnse del 086 are the wishful thinking of a robot, an android with an ego. I give them no credence.

[ozy]

Music is played in the brain. My fingers are not programmed to play piano well, so I program electronic instruments to play sounds the way I want to hear them.

right.

And after entering the notes on a grid, you had to "humanize" them by artificially de-quantizing,

before your grid is "perfect" and "the humain ear and brain are imperfect".

Good.

Now, in order to relax, play a nice tennis game on wii.

But don't play the game in real time. No need for that stupid effort.

Just enter every single arm and wrist move step by step, synchronizing them with the ball's trajectories.

After you have so effortlessly and "perfectly" played, add some errors in order to make the game feel real.

"The challenge is in the mind", after all.



"Brain" is in the fingers as well, chap. Read some serious neuroscience before throwing around words like "brain".

Oh, Ghost of Walter Carlos' Lost Cojones, Where Arth Thou?

[cello]

Whilst I appreciate the music satisfies your ears, I find it slightly cold. Accurately played, absolutely. Musically played? Not for my ears - sorry!

Your interpretation however is probably valid for this academic collection from Bach, given the limits of the instrument at the time; and being well-tempered with little or no dynamic range.

I suspect if you were to employ the same interpretation - programming - with Debussy, for example. It would only work with all the melodramatic impositions that a performer can put in.

I suspect you're a keen mathematician as Bach is pure algebra, right? Maths is played by the brain - but music needs brain and heart. Maybe that's why I find the 'music' cool - for me 'music' is the effective combination of heart and mind both in its composition and in its performance!

[Strider]

Your interpretation however is probably valid for this academic collection from Bach, given the limits of the instrument at the time; and being well-tempered with little or no dynamic range.

I suspect if you were to employ the same interpretation - programming - with Debussy, for example. It would only work with all the melodramatic impositions that a performer can put in.

Yes, sir. That is why I chose these pieces for this project. And I absolutely agree with you about Debussy. I am also quite certain that it is possible to program such "impositions", but that's another project for another time.

It might be amusing to attempt a "Turing test" for a recording some day. I would also like to be clear that I do not think that the recordings under discussion would pass such a test, nor were they ever intended to do so.

Now, in order to relax, play a nice tennis game on wii.

It should be obvious to even a casual observer that playing tennis is not a good analogy for producing a musical recording. Your analogy holds in relation to live performance, but not a recorded/digitally produced artifact (and it is clear that you prefer one over the other). You're comparing apples to oranges, or rather, apples to cell phones. I think that producing live performances and producing musical recordings are both valid, though different, endeavors.

Perhaps another way to look at it is this - you can weld a joint by hand or you can weld a joint using industrial automation. The manual weld can display a degree of craftsmanship, even artistry, that aficionados might greatly admire. Yet, assuming both were well done, both are useful components of a larger work.

Read some serious neuroscience before throwing around words like "brain".

"Brain" is a fairly simple word, despite the complex structure and function of its referent. I think the common understanding of the term is sufficient to this discussion, which really does not require any deeper understanding of neuroscience than one could get from reading Oliver Sacks or Daniel Levitin. No special insight into "brain fingers" is required.

Thanks guys, for commenting!

[ozy]

Turing, Sachs...

Ok, I got it.

Bye.

[cello]

What I should have added in my post earlier was thank you for uploading for us to hear!

Bach is notoriously difficult to get 'right' - first, 'right' is a relative term and second, the balance between cool mathematics of the well-tempered clavier (which was the way it was written) to being gloriously musical (including human imperfectons) such as the St Mathew Passion.

My wife plays cello in a quartet (professionally - and no, they don't do weddings!), and the violist is a baroque specialist and is a stickler for accuracy - eg a pizzicato over a quaver should last for the value of the note indicated. The other three however, are more intepretive and will forego accuracy in favour of 'melodrama' - or what I might romantacism! Needless to say this leads to endless debates about the right and the wrong...

But anyway, great that you posted and it's an interesting project, which I have to say although not my preferred approach, has been executed flawlessly given the aims of your exercise.

[peter m. mahr]

Interesting project and interesting read! Thank you for sharing.

Peter

[Strider]

Turing, Sachs...

Ok, I got it.

Bye.

Ever the lovable curmudgeon.

[Strider]

Although interest in this thread seems low, I want to make another statement regarding this discussion. A better analogy occurred to me and I think it might be worthwhile to share.


Live performance on an instrument is roughly analogous to a live stage play. This is what Ozy likes.

Recording a live performance is roughly equivalent to video-recording a live stage play.

Recording an album in a studio is like making a film. You record "scenes" and "takes", and then edit them into a finished product. All manner of technical embellishments and alterations might become part of the final product. Some aspects of the finished work might not even be "performable" live.

The work that I did to create my recording of "The Well-Tempered Clavier, Book I" is roughly equivalent to creating an animated feature or, perhaps, to creating a film in CGI. Every frame, or note, is hand-crafted one cell at a time. (The fact is, many film scores are created this way, in whole or in part.)

Each of these endeavors is worthwhile.


My objective with the WTC was to create a "transparent" rendition, as faithful to Bach's manuscript as possible (the normal caveats apply). I think it might be useful for students and Bach fans to hear, and perhaps study, as a point of departure for their own interpretations of the works. I do intend to create a second version that is "performed" as I would like to hear it. However, it might be awhile before I get to it since I have four other projects (less offensive to Ozy, I hope) mapped out ahead of that. And a day job.

(If I add another whine about the Kronos or the demise of my "086", will the thread get more views?)

[rrricky rrrecordo]

A huge nod to Glenn Gould, Strider! As you probably know, he used to chop tape like George Martin in the finale of A Day in the Life.

I studied piano with a lovely lady at UofT in the seventies - Patricia Blomfield Holt, a well respected Canadian performer and composer. She had worked with Glenn on several occasions and had some colourful stories to tell about the man and his approach to recording. She was not a fan although begrudgingly admitted to enjoying his live Bach performances. I once brought in a recording of Beethoven sonatas he had done and she chewed me out, saying that after all she had taught me about touch and interpretation, I needed to toss that record and pick up some Schnabel discs!

I'm a huge GG fan btw, and oddly enough we share the same birthday. I always stop and speak with his statue when I drop by to see my pals at the CBC in Toronto

[Strider]

Hi Folks:

Early in this thread, I mentioned that the "Well-Tempered Clavier" rendition I created was "just groundwork or a side-effect of another, more ambitious project". So you know I wasn't just blowing hot air, I wanted to mention that the first part of that project is done. I call it "The Ill-Tempered Synclavier". (So clever. Meh.) You can hear the whole thing for free at-

http://jimstrider.bandcamp.com

There are notes on the work at that page, which I won't reproduce here unless requested.

As you might expect, the whole album is sprinkled with Oasys sounds. Of particular note, track 7, Bird Getz a Mulligan, features 4 of the Exs3 saxophones. Track 3, The Xiphoid Processional, is 100% Oasys.

I hope Ozy gives me some love this time.

[Charlie]

Cool idea to start with Bach and make it "strange".
But the Synclavier-title is somehow misleading ...
@Schnauzer:

[Strider]

Despite the very limited discussion on this thread provoked by my earlier experiment, it seems there are some folks interested in the issues I tried to raise. In the New York Times today-

To Tug Hearts, Music First Must Tickle the Neurons

As a side note:

Oddly, I noticed some visits to my "experiment" site in response to my post about my REAL work (http://jimstrider.bandcamp.com/album/th ... synclavier) but only 1 or 2 visits to that work. I assume that is because the thread bumped up and folks only looked at the first few posts. In this case, the early posts reference the experiment while the latter posts reference my real work.

That tells us that posting a single thread for "My Music on the Oasys" is ineffective. Like Mr. Sidak, you must post a new thread for each new piece, if you want folks to listen. (I offer this not as a complaint in any way, merely as an observation to help folks maximize the effectiveness of their posts, for those who want feedback.)