Time for an OASYS upgrade/update?

[TonyGen]

cello, you know my views on this by now so I won't bore you all with a repeat......

I've always said being nice in theses situations gets you nowhere. So I'm happy to keep a lid on my vitreol regarding promises etc. and sit back and see how you guys get on with the pleasant approach.....

I sincerely hope this approach gets all of us something new for the Oasys. However, I hope you will forgive me 6 months down the line when I revert to type after (most probably) nothing positive has happened...

[MrT-Man]

What would make me pretty happy: A couple of new program & combi banks, lifted from the Kronos

What would make me very happy: A couple of new EXs libraries, lifted from the Kronos

What would make me SUPER happy: The disk-streaming technology, lifted from the Kronos, allowing us to load in the massive new piano EXs

(or, failing any of that, a $500 discount for the Kronos for registered Oasys owners!)

[fallingman]

What would make me pretty happy: A couple of new program & combi banks, lifted from the Kronos

What would make me very happy: A couple of new EXs libraries, lifted from the Kronos

What would make me SUPER happy: The disk-streaming technology, lifted from the Kronos, allowing us to load in the massive new piano EXs

(or, failing any of that, a $500 discount for the Kronos for registered Oasys owners!)

Agreed - was just gonna propose that.

After all, the K (am I the first to call it by a single letter?) seems to have usurped (now there's a word I don't use everyday!) much of the synth engine tech of the O, so there must be some crossover somewhere, although it's probably more a translation layer methinks, so what about porting those lovely new piano engines over to the O with an upgrade?

Now that would make sense - plus, give us a straightforward way to upgrade our HDDs, and with a big enough drive in there, we could do the streaming thing?

Oink oink flap...

[Sina172]

...

[cello]

Guys, if you want the new KRONOS Programs and Combis you can load them into the OASYS provided that they don't contain the new Synth Engines.

I confirmed this with Korg. They are almost 100% compatible.

Sina

If that's accurate - excellent. But how do we get the Kronos PCGs? Buy a Kronos?

Perhaps Korg could spend maybe a week editing the Kronos PCGs into an OASYS-friendly bundle, then put them on korguser.net for download?

Or is that too much to ask?

[cello]

cello, you know my views on this by now so I won't bore you all with a repeat......

I've always said being nice in theses situations gets you nowhere. So I'm happy to keep a lid on my vitreol regarding promises etc. and sit back and see how you guys get on with the pleasant approach.....

I sincerely hope this approach gets all of us something new for the Oasys. However, I hope you will forgive me 6 months down the line when I revert to type after (most probably) nothing positive has happened...

Good to see you around Tony! Thanks for letting us give it a go

Time will tell.

[Sina172]

...

[cello]

Guys, if you want the new KRONOS Programs and Combis you can load them into the OASYS provided that they don't contain the new Synth Engines.

I confirmed this with Korg. They are almost 100% compatible.

Sina

If that's accurate - excellent. But how do we get the Kronos PCGs? Buy a Kronos?

Perhaps Korg could spend maybe a week editing the Kronos PCGs into an OASYS-friendly bundle, then put them on korguser.net for download?

Or is that too much to ask?

You can do that yourself, Cello!

Go to your local Music Shop with a Thumb Drive when the KRONOS ships, save the KRONOS PCG File without the Set Lists, Drum Track data and new EXi Programs onto that Thumb Drive go home, load it into your OASYS and your done!

Hello!

Is it THAT difficult? They are ALMOST 100% compatible! WOW!

I want that DAW integration, new Synth Engines, Set Lists, Drum Track. I'm picking up the KRONOS the DAY it comes out! 61 and 88!

Sina

What you just suggested is intellectual property theft and completely illegal.

I am only licensed to use Kronos PCGs if...

a) I buy a Kronos
b) Korg releases an official download PCG package for OASYS users
c) Korg release the PCGs into the public domain

My question then remains. How do OASYS users get the Kronos PCGs if, as you say, much of the Kronos PCGs are compatible with the O?

[SirRoyRogers]

Kronos OS must be the Oasys 2.0 OS.
Korg still owe somthing to the Oasys users.
I think we have to wait but no more than 5-6 months.

[bax]

(Sorry for the novel...)

Yeah, I suppose a lot of us OASYS owners may feel a bit cheated or misled or over-promised/under-delivered to, etc. but I guess the root of the issue is that Korg is a business first and foremost. Maybe they didn't end the OASYS project exactly as they hoped to for whatever reasons, but I cannot believe that there have not been any internal discussions within Korg about the OASYS user community and what we will think about the Kronos, especially the way in which they are launching it (with virtually no mention of its true heritage and the true age of the majority of its codebase).

I have to hope that there was at least some attempt to consider what could be reasonably done for the OASYS users that feel strongly that we have been left behind. My fervent hope is that there *are* some portions of the Kronos development that are not 100% reliant upon the newer hardware specs and are truly backwards-compatible with the OASYS or that could be easily made so with an update to the OASYS OS. If that is the case I would hope that there will be some kind of offering (paid, free, or a combination of both) for us. I would probably pay a reasonable amount of $$$ if the EXs libraries could be useable on the OASYS without the VMT (disk-streaming) technology. Obviously we won't be able to use the pianos or any sample set that is over 2Gb, but maybe the EXs4 and 5 would be small enough to be useable???

How about porting over the EP-1 engine? I'd guess the codebase between the machines are reasonably similar and (as a developer in a previous life) if I were guessing, they probably prototyped a lot of this stuff using the same development environment toolset they used for the OASYS development - it would just make financial sense not to entirely reinvent the wheel for the Kronos, especially if it truly is running on Intel-based hardware again...most of the hardware-level stuff (drivers) is probably new or modified code, but I *seriously* bet the GUI, synth engine DSP, file formats, and as much of the other hardware-abstracted code as possible is practically if not exactly the same.

Even if that isn't possible - how about patches for the various engines that are not sample-based (STR-1, AL-1, MOD-7, MS-20EX, PolysixEX, CX-3)? I'm hoping that they mostly re-voiced Kronos - if they simply used the same OASYS patches and combis I'd be really disappointed! Assuming that they did not change the format (and we have been told that Kronos will read OASYS PCG and SNG files) I can't imagine that we couldn't take advantage of those patches, so to not make them available for OASYS users would be criminal, IMHO. If what Sina heard is true about the compatibility, then this is a good thing...

Long story short, I gotta believe that there are a lot of similarities between the two platforms, and if Korg as a company is concerned at all about making a lot of previous investors in their company happy and winning some excellent public relations goodwill, they have probably seriously considered doing whatever they are technically able to do (and within reasonable budgetary limits) to throw us a bone. I totally understand that they don't want to take away from the marketing buzz of launching a new flagship by putting a spotlight on an older and arguably prematurely abandoned flagship product (especially when a lot of us feel kinda jilted and are not really happy about it).

That said, I would hope that an official statement from Korg (one way or the other) about any Kronos-OASYS compatibility and offerings would be made to this community. If they *do* have something for us and they *really* wanted to make a big positive PR splash and engender a *lot* of goodwill they should announce it soon - maybe even at the show while people are looking at them. The fact that they mentioned all the internet buzz going on and this forum *by name* during their main launch of the Kronos certainly tells us they *are* paying attention and also realize that the rest of the people who care about such things are reading this board. They are probably *still* reading this board even after the launch...I hope so anyway...

Thanks!
bax

[cello]

(Sorry for the novel...)

Yeah, I suppose a lot of us OASYS owners may feel a bit cheated or misled or over-promised/under-delivered to, etc. but I guess the root of the issue is that Korg is a business first and foremost. Maybe they didn't end the OASYS project exactly as they hoped to for whatever reasons, but I cannot believe that there have not been any internal discussions within Korg about the OASYS user community and what we will think about the Kronos, especially the way in which they are launching it (with virtually no mention of its true heritage and the true age of the majority of its codebase).

I have to hope that there was at least some attempt to consider what could be reasonably done for the OASYS users that feel strongly that we have been left behind. My fervent hope is that there *are* some portions of the Kronos development that are not 100% reliant upon the newer hardware specs and are truly backwards-compatible with the OASYS or that could be easily made so with an update to the OASYS OS. If that is the case I would hope that there will be some kind of offering (paid, free, or a combination of both) for us. I would probably pay a reasonable amount of $$$ if the EXs libraries could be useable on the OASYS without the VMT (disk-streaming) technology. Obviously we won't be able to use the pianos or any sample set that is over 2Gb, but maybe the EXs4 and 5 would be small enough to be useable???

How about porting over the EP-1 engine? I'd guess the codebase between the machines are reasonably similar and (as a developer in a previous life) if I were guessing, they probably prototyped a lot of this stuff using the same development environment toolset they used for the OASYS development - it would just make financial sense not to entirely reinvent the wheel for the Kronos, especially if it truly is running on Intel-based hardware again...most of the hardware-level stuff (drivers) is probably new or modified code, but I *seriously* bet the GUI, synth engine DSP, file formats, and as much of the other hardware-abstracted code as possible is practically if not exactly the same.

Even if that isn't possible - how about patches for the various engines that are not sample-based (STR-1, AL-1, MOD-7, MS-20EX, PolysixEX, CX-3)? I'm hoping that they mostly re-voiced Kronos - if they simply used the same OASYS patches and combis I'd be really disappointed! Assuming that they did not change the format (and we have been told that Kronos will read OASYS PCG and SNG files) I can't imagine that we couldn't take advantage of those patches, so to not make them available for OASYS users would be criminal, IMHO. If what Sina heard is true about the compatibility, then this is a good thing...

Long story short, I gotta believe that there are a lot of similarities between the two platforms, and if Korg as a company is concerned at all about making a lot of previous investors in their company happy and winning some excellent public relations goodwill, they have probably seriously considered doing whatever they are technically able to do (and within reasonable budgetary limits) to throw us a bone. I totally understand that they don't want to take away from the marketing buzz of launching a new flagship by putting a spotlight on an older and arguably prematurely abandoned flagship product (especially when a lot of us feel kinda jilted and are not really happy about it).

That said, I would hope that an official statement from Korg (one way or the other) about any Kronos-OASYS compatibility and offerings would be made to this community. If they *do* have something for us and they *really* wanted to make a big positive PR splash and engender a *lot* of goodwill they should announce it soon - maybe even at the show while people are looking at them. The fact that they mentioned all the internet buzz going on and this forum *by name* during their main launch of the Kronos certainly tells us they *are* paying attention and also realize that the rest of the people who care about such things are reading this board. They are probably *still* reading this board even after the launch...I hope so anyway...

Thanks!
bax

Great post bax and right on the money - thank you for posting.

[EvilDragon]

Korg still owe somthing to the Oasys users.

Korg owes you NOTHING after an instrument has been DISCONTINUED.

[cello]

Korg still owe somthing to the Oasys users.

Korg owes you NOTHING after an instrument has been DISCONTINUED.

Really? How has it been discontinued when the whole concept, all it's functions (plus a couple of new modules and buttons) is lifted and put into a new box that just happens to to be priced to compete with fantom and motif?

Yes, O users were told not to expect any further development for the O. Bitterly disappointing for those users at the time - which in itself broke the open and future upgrade promises, which continues to cause deep, meaningful disappointment - the O cost $8.5k new, remember.

Then this absolute miracle of a keyboard that is a true work of genius emerges, completely out of the blue, that is a straight copy of the OASYS concept proves that Korg was somewhat economical with the truth.

KORG DID DEVELOP OASYS AND MADE IT SO THEY COULD MAKE MORE MONEY WITH NO REGARD FOR CURRENT O USERS.

It's as blatant as that. Korg said it was discontinued and developed it behind closed doors. That is gross misrepresentation and a betrayal in any language - a point proved in that in none of the presentation or marketing material does the Kronos attribute anything, any way to the OASYS product (even telling Jordan Rudess to not mention OASYS but only to 'a Korg instrument') . Look at the specs - around 80% of Kronos IS OASYS. So development wasn't discontinued, was it?

[kenackr]

Many of you are upset that Korg would introduce a new keyboard that has quite a few of the same features as the Oasys. Consider that it's what they do for a living and when time, manpower & money are tight, you use the best of what you have already developed and build on it.

Throw in a few new jazzy things and slap a label on it that says "New Technology, fantastic features, incredible sound, and so on" to make it sound like it's new. Every business on this planet (from soap companies to car companies, real estate developers, & lingerie designers, etc) does it just about every year: it's called MARKETING. No news here folks, nothing to see, move along now.

It seems like many of you are way too cranky and should go to bed early without supper.

I bought a Korg T1 Flagship 88 and the following year they brought out the O1W (arguably a clone). I checked it out and couldn't find anything that I liked better on it. My perception still is: if you take the product name labels off, there's really no breakthrough difference between them. I could be wrong of course, but that's my perception.

I don't see any difference here with the Kronos. It's interesting to note that on the Korg website keyboard page there is still a picture & caption of the Oasys (same size as all the others) above the Kronos picture.

In reading the Kronos info, they do not refer to it as their new flagship, they simply call it a workstation. If you click the Oasys picture and read it's info, it still say's it's in a class by itself and it lists all the synth engines in it. No hiding anything there.

If you buy a new 2011 BMW or Mercedes, do you cry & whine when the 2012's come out ? Of course not, because it is inevitable & you know that going in. The car company doesn't owe you anything because the new one is now getting attention. If they don't sell new models, they'll go out of business. Same deal here.

Here's a Kleenex, wipe the tears & snot off your face and get over it.

Happy trails,

Ken

[Akos Janca]

Korg still owe somthing to the Oasys users.

IMHO an EXf.

Korg owes you NOTHING after an instrument has been DISCONTINUED.

Really? How has it been discontinued when the whole concept, all it's functions (plus a couple of new modules and buttons) is lifted and put into a new box...

I think not the whole concept but maybe the software. We don't even know if it's the same software (although very similar).

Yes, O users were told not to expect any further development for the O.

Sorry Cello, but where?

KORG DID DEVELOP OASYS AND MADE IT SO THEY COULD MAKE MORE MONEY WITH NO REGARD FOR CURRENT O USERS.
...
Korg said it was discontinued and developed it behind closed doors.

Korg said the OASYS was discontinued - I mean the hardware production. Yes, they have developed their proprietary software - that is, and should be, independent from the OASYS instrument.

OK, we OASYS users paid a high price for The Best Workstation On The Planet. But it happened several years ago! We got that advantage for our money. Our instrument is built upon that hardware. Additionally, we still have the chance to get software development for OASYS. Because it's an open system.

It's interesting to note that on the Korg website keyboard page there is still a picture & caption of the Oasys (same size as all the others) above the Kronos picture.

In reading the Kronos info, they do not refer to it as their new flagship, they simply call it a workstation. If you click the Oasys picture and read it's info, it still say's it's in a class by itself and it lists all the synth engines in it. No hiding anything there.

I agree with Ken in many things, especially the quote above.

What I say: let's wait until we OASYS users can try KRONOS in studio circumstances. No other users can help to decide the difference, if any.

We still don't know why KRONOS is cheaper. Maybe it's only because of the newer hardware technology. Or a marketing decision. Or also something else - in sound, in capabilities.

We still belong to an elite club.