Bank and Patch Change Question for KLC Wavestation

PlanetEarth · Post by **PlanetEarth** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:19 am

Hi all. I'm new to the KLC Wavestation, but I love it so far!

I've tried to program patch changes for the plug-in in SONAR 6.2.2, and I'm not having much luck. I'm just trying to set the initial bank and patch; I'm not necessarily trying to change banks and patches during a song.

I've tried to follow the MIDI implementation, and I think I just need to choose Controller 32 and then the bank and then the patch (from 0 to 49), but nothing I've tried works correctly. When my patch changes work, they're still confined to "RAM1".

Would someone mind "dumbing it down" a bit for me and just let me know how my Event list should appear to choose the bank and patch for anything other than something in bank 1? I'm pretty sure I'll be able to follow the steps once I get out of bank 1!

For what it's worth, I have a lot of softsynths, but I haven't had this much
trouble calling up patches in them. I've also tried to search this forum, but I ended up with hundreds of results, no matter how I refined my search terms. I did see in another forum where some people said bank and patch changes just don't work with the KLC Wavestation and SONAR, but I definitely hope that's not the case.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:17 am

as a standard for MIDI, you need to send both bank MSB and LSB (controller 0?? and controller 32) before sending the patch change. As far as I know anyway.

Does Sonar not support bank change messages natively?

PlanetEarth · Post by **PlanetEarth** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:18 pm

X-Trade wrote:as a standard for MIDI, you need to send both bank MSB and LSB (controller 0?? and controller 32) before sending the patch change. As far as I know anyway.

Does Sonar not support bank change messages natively?

It's not as easy as it could be, I'll say that.

I can choose Controller 0 or Controller 32 (under "Bank Select Method"), apparently. Once I choose the Bank Select Method, I can choose the "Bank" (either "none" or "0-bank 0"). I can put whatever value I want into that "0-bank 0", but nothing changes the bank in the synth.

I haven't seen where I can choose both, even when I use the Event Viewer.

Steve

dpabbott · Post by **dpabbott** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:47 pm

@PlanetEarth - I used to have Sonar and a physical WS (still do

). And Cubase and Logic... and I managed to get the (physical) WS to shift programs no problems - *but* the trick is to send 3 bytes of data, as the bank won't change until the program change byte is received. So - I used to send an MSB of 0, an LSB of 0 for RAM1 and RAM2 (bear with me on this...) or an LSB of 1 for the ROM and the CARD, then the program number 1-100 - 1-50 selected a program in RAM1 or ROM and 51-100 in RAM2 or CARD. So - for ROM prog 25 (Gig Split) I'd send MSB 0, LSB 1, Prog 25

There may be more details in the software manual MIDI implementation stuff about how to access the ROM 3 and 4 and so on banks - intuition would suggest an LSB of 2, 3, etc

Hope that helps?

PlanetEarth · Post by **PlanetEarth** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:51 pm

dpabbott wrote:@PlanetEarth - I used to have Sonar and a physical WS (still do ). And Cubase and Logic... and I managed to get the (physical) WS to shift programs no problems - *but* the trick is to send 3 bytes of data, as the bank won't change until the program change byte is received. So - I used to send an MSB of 0, an LSB of 0 for RAM1 and RAM2 (bear with me on this...) or an LSB of 1 for the ROM and the CARD, then the program number 1-100 - 1-50 selected a program in RAM1 or ROM and 51-100 in RAM2 or CARD. So - for ROM prog 25 (Gig Split) I'd send MSB 0, LSB 1, Prog 25

There may be more details in the software manual MIDI implementation stuff about how to access the ROM 3 and 4 and so on banks - intuition would suggest an LSB of 2, 3, etc

Hope that helps?

I've checked the manual (for SONAR and WS), and while I have an idea of what I'm supposed to put, I can't find a way to actually put them into an event in SONAR.

Do you remember how you did it in the Event Viewer, or do you think you could just post an example?

Nothing I've tried stays in the Event Viewer, and I know I need to use that, because I can't choose banks from the track view.

Thanks!

Steve

dpabbott · Post by **dpabbott** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:53 pm

Just checked me notes (as it were) - Program numbers are 0-49 and 50-99 so forget that 1-50 and 51-100 malarkey...

The sequence of control events is:

Control 0 - Value 0
Control 32 - Value n - where n is 0 or 1 (see previous post)
Program - Value 0-99

Spread em out over a quaver or so and I used the event view to insert? Not got access to Sonar anymore so can't advise the best way of getting them into a track sorry. Your event view may be filtering out SYSEX events - getting to see them in Logic can be a little odd at times

PlanetEarth · Post by **PlanetEarth** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:03 pm

dpabbott wrote:Just checked me notes (as it were) - Program numbers are 0-49 and 51-99 so forget that 1-50 and 51-100 malarkey...

The sequence of control events is:

Control 0 - Value 0
Control 32 - Value n - where n is 0 or 1 (see previous post)
Program - Value 0-99

Spread em out over a quaver or so...

Thanks for the update, dpabott, and please excuse me for being "thick", but in SONAR's Event View, I can enter a "Kind" of event, and for that I can choose "Patch". For the data, I can choose the Controller (again, one or the other), and a "Bank"--but the value I enter for Bank doesn't stay, regardless of what I try. I can't enter a "Program" per se, but I can choose anything from 1-127. The problem is that anything below 50 already has a patch name, so I know it's not going to call up a different bank.

I tried two "Patch" Events, one with Controller 0, one with Controller 32. I couldn't get the Bank to stay with the one I wanted for either event, though.

Steve

dpabbott · Post by **dpabbott** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:52 pm

@planetearth - Wish I could be more helpful - I know I've done this in Sonar with the physical M1 and WS; but without access to a) Sonar, b) a Sonar manual or c) a Windows PC I've run out of ideas! Can't even find my old Sonar files that I could have sent so you could've reverse engineered them!

dpabbott · Post by **dpabbott** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:35 pm

@planetearth - Or try this (I cracked and read the WS Legacy manual...)

Insert a Ctrl32 event with data from 0-10
Insert a ProgChange event with data from 0-49

Worked in Logic - looks like the software WS don't recognise the Ctrl0 MSB message - oh, and check on the Global page that Control Change, Program Change and (if you like) Aftertouch are all ENABLE.

PlanetEarth · Post by **PlanetEarth** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:24 am

dpabbott wrote:@planetearth - Or try this (I cracked and read the WS Legacy manual...)

Insert a Ctrl32 event with data from 0-10
Insert a ProgChange event with data from 0-49

Worked in Logic - looks like the software WS don't recognise the Ctrl0 MSB message - oh, and check on the Global page that Control Change, Program Change and (if you like) Aftertouch are all ENABLE.

Thanks again, dpabott. Sorry for my late reply, but for some reason, I'm not always notified when replies are posted. (I get the notifications sometimes, so it's not a "spam filtering" issue.)

I'd already tried what you've suggested, but either SONAR doesn't handle the events the same way Logic does, or the software WS doesn't interpret them the same way the hardware version does.

I've made sure the Global "patch change" setting was enabled (as are the others), but that doesn't help.

What's odd is that the WS "wrap around" on patch changes. For example, patch "63" becomes patch 13...though still in the first bank.

From what I've seen in Google and Yahoo searches, no one has ever gotten this to work. Several people have asked about it (even in the SONAR forums), but no one has solved the problem.

Steve