Whats missing in KRONOS..

Jon Lord · Post by **Jon Lord** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:44 pm

Akos, i like your idea alot.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:59 am

KRONOS, like other flagship workstation from KORG, is missing the ability to edit programs and drum kits from Combi or SEQ mode. This makes you constantly switch between COMBI, SEQ and Program/Global mode.

It would be great to be able to edit the programs right from the Sequencer or Combi so that I could customize the pograms for the current song or Combi.

Editing the Drums is very painful. Just adding more reverb on snare requires stopping the sequencer, jumping to Global mode, create a new custom drum kit and then saving it. Then selecting the program and saving it, and then coming back to the sequencer..... Repeat this for ech slight edit/tweak to individual drum keys......

gjvti · Post by **gjvti** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:03 am

Yes, I certainly agree about drums and program editing - it is not quite convenient and not editing/tweaking friendly for sure. On Kronos presentation Rich said that providing analogue synth engines Korg encourages editing - but the problem is that current architecture is not much editing friendly, since you actually can't edit program so that there is no chance to ruin combi. First you have to copy program to new slot and only then you can edit it.
Even worse, if while editing combi you decide that some program needs additional deeper tweaking or different modulations routing you again end up going to program mode copy program to new slot and edit it and then do reassign in combi mode, because you never can be sure if that particular program is not used anywhere in your other combis. From what Stephen said I understand that Korg is aware of this, but current architecture doesn't allow to incorporate complete programs /drum kits into combi so that they can be edited directly in combi mode - we have to take what it is. Thankfully on M3 (and obviously Kornos too) there are enough free program slots - so there is at least workaround for this combi-editing shortcoming and also quite a lot of important parameters are still accessible from combi mode including that you are allowed to swap actual sample for program (at least in EDS, so must be in HD too).

Jon Lord · Post by **Jon Lord** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:45 am

Remember that there is also the Tone Adjust Mode which lets you adjust every timbre(program) in combi without affecting the actual program. But for deeper editing you need to edit the actual program.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:19 pm

Noob question considering the need for extra banks:

Can you back up banks externally, on USB or even the internal HD?

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:46 pm

Lando wrote:Noob question considering the need for extra banks:

Can you back up banks externally, on USB or even the internal HD?

Both.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:51 pm

StephenKay wrote:
Lando wrote:Noob question considering the need for extra banks:

Can you back up banks externally, on USB or even the internal HD?
Both.

Thank you! Then I honestly couldn't care less about more banks, but that's just me.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:39 pm

danatkorg wrote:
robinkle wrote: 52 voices sounds better, but with complex sounds I would expect it do drop drastically, if you get 30 voices and want to use 5 mod-7 programs, then it's too limited.
In general, our voice count specs are fairly conservative; I don't think you'll be seeing it drop to 30 voices. When the KRONOS comes out, you can check this yourself on the Performance Meters page.

A follow-up on this: I just tried a bunch of factory MOD-7 sounds, and with all of them I was able to get at least 48 voices.

Hope this helps,

Dan

Megakazbek · Post by **Megakazbek** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:54 pm

Is it possible with some simpler programs to get more voices than defined in specs (i.e. >52 for MOD-7)? Or max voice count is hardcoded to avoid CPU overload?

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:46 pm

Lando wrote:I honestly couldn't care less about more banks, but that's just me.

no, it's several among us. I don't care much about about banks.

especially after the mess they did in the past few years, the mortgage thing etc...

I keep my money tucked behind a brick.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:47 pm

ozy wrote:
Lando wrote:I honestly couldn't care less about more banks, but that's just me.
no, it's several among us. I don't care much about about banks either.

especially after the mess they did in the past few years, the mortgage thing etc...

I keep my money tucked behind a brick.

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:59 pm

danatkorg wrote:
danatkorg wrote:
robinkle wrote: 52 voices sounds better, but with complex sounds I would expect it do drop drastically, if you get 30 voices and want to use 5 mod-7 programs, then it's too limited.
In general, our voice count specs are fairly conservative; I don't think you'll be seeing it drop to 30 voices. When the KRONOS comes out, you can check this yourself on the Performance Meters page.
A follow-up on this: I just tried a bunch of factory MOD-7 sounds, and with all of them I was able to get at least 48 voices.

Hope this helps,

Dan

How many is a bunch? Did you use complex sounds?
I recall Steven Kay naming MOD-7 a CPU hog in the Challenger thread.
Doesn't sound like it now. Thanks.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:06 pm

robinkle wrote:How many is a bunch? Did you use complex sounds?
I recall Stephen Kay naming MOD-7 a CPU hog in the Challenger thread.
Doesn't sound like it now. Thanks.

Well, that depends on how you use it. If you've got a double MOD-7 E. Piano, then each note is 2 voices. If you are playing a typical E.Piano part, with a sustain pedal, then you could easily be using up to half of the CPU of the entire machine, on one track (playing with both hands, some notes overlapping: 12 voices x 2 = 24 MOD-7 voices). Then, put a MOD-7 pad sound with long release on another track. Let's say it's a single, and you play 6-note chords. Due to the long release, every time you release the chord and play the next one, they overlap. so that's 12 more voices on and off. Now you've used 75% of the available CPU on two tracks.

I'm not saying that this is bad, that's just the way it works, and you will always have limitations with resources on computer DAWs as well. Part of using the tools is learning how to work within the limitations. If you want to use lots of MOD-7 sounds in a sequence, then you may have to use workarounds, such as dumping the tracks to audio once you have the track finished, thereby freeing up all those voices to be used somewhere else (which is what I did).

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:12 pm

Another idea for Kronos R&D (based on the velocity thread):

vEddY wrote:Now, user-generated velocity curves would be a big help....

X-Trade wrote:Rather than velocity curves, keyboards need more personal calibration features

Zeroesque wrote:Also, try the TruePianos velocity control with your Yamaha:
http://www.truepianos.com/images/screen ... os_adv.png

A similar solution (see Yamaha) would be very helpful in Kronos. Predefined curves are very good but not the best. For example in O88 I use curve #4, sometimes #5. But I feel 4.5 (a curve between 4 and 5) would be the best for me.

Idea1. In GLOBAL mode there should be a possibility to optimize the recently selected velocity curve further to the player's touch. (As an extra: more user curves could be saved with any names.)

• The new parameter could be: GLOBAL P0:Basic Setup > Basic > Velocity Curve > 1, 2, 3, .... Custom

• The interface could be similar to EQ setting on Program P4: Amp/EQ > 4–9: EQ - a graph and virtual pots below.

Idea2. In COMBI/PROGRAM/SEQ modes there should be a possibility to override the GLOBAL mode's velocity curve (just like turning off the "Use Global Setting" option on Audio In/Sampling tab) and create a new unique one for the current situation.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:54 pm

Akos Janca wrote:Another idea for Kronos R&D (based on the velocity thread):

vEddY wrote:Now, user-generated velocity curves would be a big help....

X-Trade wrote:Rather than velocity curves, keyboards need more personal calibration features

If you based your request on the "velocity" thread,

you should mention that a software menu for user-generated curves embedded in the midi interface would generate merely midi-equivalence curves,

which crashes against the wall of resolution issues related by "joesynth" (see: last posts on feb 15th)

"calibration" would be a different thing: calibrating BEFORE midi kicks in (i.e.; establishing different correlation tables between the keyboard's electrical signals and the midi values)

This would be hard to put on the internal interface.

If akos' post is directed to Korg's engineers, defining what we are really asking for is paramount:

a) "personal" correspondence curves between the 127 midi steps (linear) and 127 output steps (various curves) would be nice, and is something master keyboards already can do.

But is limited.

b) deep keyboard management (electric to midi conversion ona personal basis) would be a serious step forward.

But I can imagine that Korg doesn't want ALL its users to fiddle with analogue/to/midi conversion (then complain en masse that "the keyboard stopped working" and clog the service centers)

Could they include a software for setting this? (that would mean access to part of the engine which is NOT usually available to non-Korg personnel)

Releasing it only to smart customers?

And how do you define "smart"?