PCG structure info

Yatrix · Post by **Yatrix** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Hi,
Found that several years ago Triton fans figured out PCG specification and created several librarian softs. For some reason there are no activities of that kind in respect of M50.

Looks like no one is interested in librarian, and ability to load drum patterns and arpeggios from external sources ?

any idea how to obtain PCG info from Korg or it is top secret and one need to deals with wikileaks on the matter ?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:28 pm

I think a main reason is that the M50 and M3 already come with an editor now.

But also you will struggle to get the information out of korg. They are very secretive with their proprietary technologies. AFAIK this is part of the reason the former forum administrator Daz moved away from Korg products - he had put so much time into developing applications that help users like us, but Korg would not give him the information he needed to finish them.

You're welcome to try though.

Yatrix · Post by **Yatrix** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:49 am

Thanks X-Trade, you confirmed my suspicions

Tried to compare Triton's and Karma's PCG structures with M50, and it quite similar, but there are few new chunks (looks like ... duplications?) in M50 PCG and hell knows what it for and what it actually mean ...

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am

Wouldn't it be great to have an open source PCG structure so many great developers might create awesome 3rd party apps to play with ?

Sadly the world is far from perfect

runeharpun · Post by **runeharpun** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:51 am

I was thinking about making something for the M50 a while ago, but I gave up since I got no response from Korg when I asked for the format of the patches and performances.

But there is a timeconsuming was to map out the format:

Get hold of a hex editor (http://www.hex-editor.org/). Then you can save two patches/performances with a single parameter edited. Then you use the analysis->file-compare function in the hex editor to see where the difference is.

R

Surixurient · Post by **Surixurient** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:22 am

I am thinking of doing this for the TR (same as triton?), I really would like that format. I did it for the roland sh-201 .shl .she files and it was pretty easy with a file comparison tool. about 8 hours of work, very boring and i ended up skiping some paramters sections I didnt really care about but doable.

What really is strange is that Korg gives you the exact specs to the sample file formats right in tht TR manual. but not the program file formats. They would have a reason to keep the sample formats secret, because that would force you to buy their sampling upgrade board to edit wav samples,who would buy the upgrade if you can just build your samples on your pc, way easier than using the sampling-upgrade GUI to edit waves I would imagine.

Another strange thing is that manual gives you chunkIDs from the PCGs that will not load properly or will load truncated from the triton series, why would you care about chunkIDs if they have not even published the format? Mysterious.

Yatrix · Post by **Yatrix** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:58 am

There are a lot of librarians for Triton family, so no need to do same job once more. Recommend Lelibby by Klaus Cinibulk. Nice and free soft. Google.

Secondly, M50 pcg structures are much more complicated then were for Triton family. I managed to understand almost everything in M50 PCGs but it took me about two months of investigations.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:45 am

+1 on the LeLibby. I use it for every show. It's the only librarian where you can easily shuffle progs/combis instead of creating a new .pcg and copying the prog/combi over one at a time (risking you may forget one).

I'd pay a good amount of money for a single librarian that handles *ALL* .pcg formats and offers conversion between different types. While it's true that the Triton and M3 use different synth engines, MOST of the settings will directly convert. For those that don't, the end user can manually set those. For example, almost all of the samples on the Triton have a corresponding sample on newer synths (like M50 or M3). Converting backwards would be more difficult but possible.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:57 pm

Regarding the "secret" conspiracy.

Maybe Korg has NO reason to keep anything secret, they're just a monolithic and stupid corp and don't know how to give anything out.

Maybe Korg has GOOD reason to keep everything secret, they're a crafty and slick corp and would never give anything away for free.

Maybe Korg thinks they can license this EXCLUSIVE data to sound diver or some other software publisher for big, or even medium sized bucks...

Maybe they canned the development team before getting the GOOD version of the editor.

Maybe the sample data's there because everyone asked and they've got their own sample editing software, so Korg has to do NOTHING to appear like good guys.

Maybe the PCG data's not there because only a few people asked and they've got the idea Korg ows them detailed and multi-generation editor / librarian software, so all Korg has to do is do NOTHING to appear like bad guys.

Sheesh!

BB

Surixurient · Post by **Surixurient** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:16 am

Yeah I know there are librarians/editors for triton series but I need the format specs as well, for a software suite I am working on to display/edit parameters of various synths and convert patches between them as close as possible.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:59 pm

LeLibby's author, Claus, has contact info on his site - he might be able to help where Korg wouldn't/couldn't...

Also, you could simply be knocking on the wrong doors. If you get a no - assume it's really a "not my job" and ask for suggestions as to who MIGHT have the spec &/or authority to let you in on it.

BB

Korg Forums

PCG structure info

PCG structure info

has anyone started reversing the pcg format?