Sound on Sound magazine review

[Randelph]

Dan wrote:

Randelph wrote:
Speaking of synth architecture:
> On the M3, one of the Realtime Control parameters for Slider 3 is Filter Envelope Generator Intensity. I'm assuming the Oayses and Kronos will have the same hardwired Realtime Control.

I've done a search in the Operations and Parameter Guide, and other than saying its CC#79, it doesn't say what it does. It sounds like an extension of the cutoff and resonance filter.


M3 parameter guide p.18:

Slider 3: Flt EG (Filter EG Intensity) [000...127]
This slider scales the effect of the Filter EG on the cutoff frequencies of Filters A and B. It also transmits and receives MIDI CC#79.

Thanks for the response Dan.

Still unclear on what a Filter Envelope Generator does for the Cutoff and Resonance Filters. It doesn't sound like attack, sustain, etc., it sounds like it dials in more or less of it.

And is MIDI CC #79 specifically for Filter EG Intensity as per the MIDI spec, or how Korg does CC #79 or a different controller?

I'm just curious, 'cause it's hardwired in the OS for the Realtime Control slider #3, and it doesn't seem to do much but accentuate whats already going on.

Randy

[danatkorg]

Dan wrote:

Randelph wrote:
Speaking of synth architecture:
> On the M3, one of the Realtime Control parameters for Slider 3 is Filter Envelope Generator Intensity. I'm assuming the Oayses and Kronos will have the same hardwired Realtime Control.

I've done a search in the Operations and Parameter Guide, and other than saying its CC#79, it doesn't say what it does. It sounds like an extension of the cutoff and resonance filter.


M3 parameter guide p.18:

Slider 3: Flt EG (Filter EG Intensity) [000...127]
This slider scales the effect of the Filter EG on the cutoff frequencies of Filters A and B. It also transmits and receives MIDI CC#79.

Thanks for the response Dan.

Still unclear on what a Filter Envelope Generator does for the Cutoff and Resonance Filters. It doesn't sound like attack, sustain, etc., it sounds like it dials in more or less of it.

And is MIDI CC #79 specifically for Filter EG Intensity as per the MIDI spec, or how Korg does CC #79 or a different controller?

I'm just curious, 'cause it's hardwired in the OS for the Realtime Control slider #3, and it doesn't seem to do much but accentuate whats already going on.

Randy

Hi Randy,

It sounds to me like some background info on synthesis might be helpful. The Operation Guide's "Playing and Editing Programs" chapter is one place to start. Gordon Reid's "Synth Secrets" series for Sound On Sound is also a great resource:
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?url= ... esults=yes

Best regards,

Dan

[Davidb]

*Duplicated post*

[Randelph]

Dan wrote:

Hi Randy,

It sounds to me like some background info on synthesis might be helpful. The Operation Guide's "Playing and Editing Programs" chapter is one place to start. Gordon Reid's "Synth Secrets" series for Sound On Sound is also a great resource:
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?url= ... esults=yes

Best regards,

Dan

Thanks, I'll check it out.
Randy

[Davidb]

Ok guys, a question I had reading this review:

No other user had had the chance to try the Kornos in a quiet environment yet, AFAIK, therefore, one of the things I find curious from Gordon Reid´s SOS article is when he comments about "the noise of the motherboard fan" on the Kronos and says he finds it "a bit annoying".

All OASYS users (myself included) are aware of the fan noise the machine has. ( And, mind you, the OASYS fan can be noticeable noisy sometimes).

Given that Gordon is an OASYS user too, and he´s also familiarized with the O and aware of how noisy it can be, I wonder what does he mean when refering to Kronos internal fan, claiming its noise as "annoying".

Does he mean it is louder than OASYS (being this the easier conclusion), or does he mean it sounds weird and/or disturbing in any other way? (Again quoting him: "I could see myself swithching it off for crucial studio listening"...)

[cello]

All OASYS users (myself included) are aware of the fan noise the machine has. ( And, mind you, the OASYS fan can be noticeable noisy sometimes).

Have to say the fan on my O is silent - hardly ever hear it!

But I do have T3 wirring away above it...

I guess it's all relative - for a 'crucial studio listening' shouldn't everything be switched off by default and not just selected equipment switched off?

[peter_schwartz]

I'm just curious, 'cause it's hardwired in the OS for the Realtime Control slider #3, and it doesn't seem to do much but accentuate whats already going on.

What effect CC79 is going to have on a sound depends on how the sound is programmed. I agree with Dan that if you're not sure about what Filter EG Intensity is about that you learn a bit more about analog synthesis basics. But in short, the cutoff frequency of a sound will very often be found to be modulated (e.g., "changed") by various control sources, especially envelope generators. And typically, the cutoff control will be set at a low value in the programming of a sound, meaning that the sound is going to be (generally) dull-sounding until something -- a control signal of some kind -- pushes the cutoff control to a higher value. Then the sound gets brighter. (This is what happens with a low pass filter). If the control signal is an EG, the amount of that EG that pushes the cutoff to a higher value is the EG Intensity.

And... CC79, in this case, is used to control EG Intensity via MIDI.

BTW, the MIDI spec for CC79 is "undefined". That means that it's free to be used to control whatever a manufacturer (or musician) wants to use it for. FWIW, just because the MIDI spec lists a function for a CC (such as CC2, breath controller, or even CC1, modwheel) doesn't "require" that a manufacturer -- or musician -- use it solely for that purpose. So you really can't go by the MIDI spec to understand what CC79 does -- especially an undefined control! Instead, you have to look at is how (in this case) CC79 messages are used in a particular device, like the M3 or whatever.

Just to wrap this up... the effect that CC79 will have on a sound depends on the way the sound is programmed. Not all sounds are set up so that there's a heavy amount of EG Intensity used to shape that sound. The place you'll find CC79 messages have the greatest effect are (generally) synth sounds.

[Jan1]

Given that Gordon is an OASYS user too, and he´s also familiarized with the O and aware of how noisy it can be, I wonder what does he mean when refering to Kronos internal fan, claiming its noise as "annoying".

Months ago I asked about the specifications of the fan such as the sort of fan used, diameter, min/max. rpm, but thusfar no detailed information has been given about the fan inside the KRONOS.

I don't understand why KORG did not simply choose for a really high quality quiet fan, which only costs a little more than the standard fan. I certainly would not complain if I had to pay 20 Euros more for a quiet KRONOS.

If the fan really is noticable in a quiet environment I wonder if it is possible for users to replace the fan with a more quiet model without losing the guarantee.

[Akos Janca]

Speaking of OASYS: if you want to sample using a sensitive condenser microphone connected to O from a very close source in the same room - which is not a professional solution by itself - then some fan noise could be recorded.

Besides this only situation there is no problem, although the fan can be heard it's really quiet in OASYS. I never wanted to replace it, but maybe I will someday after it wears out.

From OASYS Operation Guide:

Fan operating noise increases or changes:
This is not a malfunction. The OASYS’ cooling system fan is controlled by a temperature sensor and a program. The speed of the fan will change according to the surrounding temperatures and the operational state.

Power turns off automatically:
The openings on the left and right sides are cooling vents. Be sure to place the unit so that the sides are at least 10 cm from a wall or similar object that might block them, and do not place any obstructing object near the cooling vents. If the OASYS is not cooled adequately, the internal temperature will rise. The power supply may shut down automatically to protect the device from high temperatures.

Operating temperature:
+5 – +35 °C

OASYS has an open case for ventillation. Kronos is closed so I guess practically the fan will not be disturbing/annoying at all.

[Kontrol49]

Have to say the fan on my O is silent - hardly ever hear it!

I find the Oasys fan whisper quiet,infact don't even realise its on until I switch if off and you can hear the fan stopping,my studio is well soundproofed and Acoustically treated so any slight noise is excessive,I record vocals in the same room as the Oasys,but never have any spill or pick up of the ambience of its fan.Infact I have at least 4 devices that use fans but are almost unheard or at the least muffled by where they are situated.

Can't speak for the Kronos but suppose it depends where the fan is located,Oasys is slap bang inside the middle of the case so its not so noticeable,and isn't directly fitted to a vent in the casing so your not going to hear much noise externally,

Oasys also has metal grills either side of the Unit which help to keep air flowing through,those plastic sides on the Kronos don't seem to have that function so I guess the air needs to be circulated by a fan on the casing,but where does the air get expelled from there seems to be no airflow vents on the Kronos pics I've seen,??I dare say the 61 note Kronos fan is going to have to work hard to keep it cool given its the smallest of the 3 cases...seem to recall the Alesis Fusion workstations suffered from overheating problems!

Unless your recording vocals or instruments directly next to the Oasys/Kronos would have thought after a while you won't even notice its fan.

[Jan1]

...but where does the air get expelled from there seems to be no airflow vents on the Kronos pics I've seen,??

That's precisely my concern.
If the KRONOS fan is noticeable, then in a closed case design where hot air can only escape through the space between the keys and the knobs as is the case with the KRONOS, all the fan keeps doing at a certain point is rotate at its maximum speed at its loudest level, moving hot air around in the closed space.

[Akos Janca]

It's not a must to have vent holes on the case. A device can directly dissipate heat through its metal body, for example. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the fan will rotate at maximum speed.

I see too much speculation here. Why not trust in Korg's engineers instead who already designed many professional instruments?

[GiantSonicRobot]

...but where does the air get expelled from there seems to be no airflow vents on the Kronos pics I've seen,??

That's precisely my concern.
If the KRONOS fan is noticeable, then in a closed case design where hot air can only escape through the space between the keys and the knobs as is the case with the KRONOS, all the fan keeps doing at a certain point is rotate at its maximum speed at its loudest level, moving hot air around in the closed space.

Power Consumption of the Kronos is rated at 60 W whereas the OASYS draws 130 W.
In other words: The K produces less than half as much heat as the O.

[Kontrol49]

I see too much speculation here. Why not trust in Korg's engineers instead who already designed many professional instruments?

I wouldn't say it's too much speculation,AFAIK Kronos and Oasys are the only synths Korg made that relied on fans to keep the CPU cool.The Oasys Fan is adequate and the casing has air vents,I've certainly never had any overheating problems,I also clean the fins on the fans of the gear I have periodically so they always work at their optimum.

Whilst I'm sure the Engineers at Korg know what they are doing, a smaller case 61 is still generating the same power rating as a larger 88 note which has more space inside the Chassis for heat to escape.

This was the issue with many of the Alesis fusions it was the 6HD models(61 key) that suffered the overheating problems,some owners even drilled holes in the chassis to help prevent heat build up inside or changed there Normal hard drive for 2.5" laptop versions,although I expect most of the heat is generated by the power supply not the drives.

Irrespective of the Kronos generating half the power of oasys,its excess heat need's to be dissapated somehow,wouldn't like the idea of the Case being utilised as a Heatsink.

[X-Trade]

The Atom processor is also quite low power and heat generating. There are a number of integrated atom mini-ITX motherboards that even use only a passive (!) heatsync.