Triton LE 76- held notes or triggered samples cut off

toupeeband · Post by **toupeeband** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:34 pm

Please help! I make my living with my LE 76 and can't seem to solve this problem. When holding down a note that should sustain as long as it's held, like an organ or a string patch, or even when I trigger a few seconds long sample, the notes just cut off. But not all the time. Just when I need them the most! I purchased another Triton LE 76 because my local repair guy couldn't fix it or even recreate the problem. Now I'm getting the same problem with the new LE. A possible clue could be that one time I used the old power supply with the new keyboard and now the new one is acting the same way, cutting the note off before I release the note or before the full length of the triggered sample is over. Thinking it could be extra sensitive to questionable power I purchased an uninterpretable power supply. I used it for the first time at a gig last night and the new LE is acting the same way. No consistently, but often. Any clues would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone know if I could have just had a bad power supply with the old keyboard that caused the problem and the one time I used it for the replacement it caused the same damage? THANKS!

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:59 pm

Toup,

A little more detail?

The kind of thing you're experiencing should not, i think, be a result of power fluctuations... if they were I'd have expected them to fry a board, not shorten samples. That the LE's still playing says this is probably not the problem.

Is anything else hooked up? Are you running a computer, sequencer, auxiliary keyboard, or anything else in your rig? Some "handshake" protocols might read extremely long held notes as a "stuck note" and deliberately cut them off.

Is your sustain pedal old? Some sustain pedals depend on a mechanical leaf or spring switch that is susceptible to oxidization (rust) - even a small break in sustain pedal function would cut off a note abruptly a you describe [it's happened to me using some old alesis and fatar pedals].

BB

toupeeband · Post by **toupeeband** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:19 pm

Hi Bill,
Thanks for responding so quickly. I use the LE 76 for everything that's not a piano sound and a Roland RD 700 for my piano. They are midi'd together so I can use an LE string pad behind my piano sound, which I hardly ever do.
Do you think I should try the setup without the midi cable to eliminate that as a possibility?
I run the boards thru my Mackie 12 channel board into the band's main board, a mackie 16 ch vlz.
There is no sustain pedal hooked up to the LE, just stereo outs, AC, and the midi cable. I hope this helps. Again, the only connection between the replacement synth and the original one was the one time I used the old AC for the new synth briefly, like a few minutes.
I'm on the cusp of a busy wedding season and can't have the string notes conspicuously cutting off during first dances!
Thanks again for any insight you can offer, Bill.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:50 am

Toupeeband,

The most likely culprit for a note stopping is a note-off MIDI event - generated locally (by the korg) or via midi (by the roland. (duh)

So hearing that the Roland is controlling makes me suspect one of two other things.

First is to wonder if the Roland supports half-damping - quickest way to tell is look at the damper plug and see if it is single black ring (korg's preferred style) or RTS (ring-tip-sleeve) which will have two black rings. Half damping -- letting off just a little - might still sustain on the piano, but not the LE.

Other (and more likely) is to wonder about the sound (voice) you're using and polyphony. If RD-700 has a "limited" polyphony it could be causing the stop due to voice robbing. I put limited in quotes because even a fairly high number gets whittled down very quickly under some circumstances. Sometimes polyphony is per oscillator/per note. A complex piano sound using 4 oscillators would quarter your polyphony number [i.e., 64 down to 16 notes]. Then using the sustain pedal for a 10 voice chord (octaves + 5th LH, 2 octaves or extended chord RH) a and a bit of melody you'd exceed 16 and the first, lowest or softest note (depending on roland's voicing scheme) would get cut off to let you play the next note. Even if the Korg's got polyphony to spare, the midi event (rob... er, stop that note) will be sent via midi from the Roland.

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So yeah, I would take off the midi cable. Play the korg using a dedicated sustain pedal (in many ways a cleaner sound) and see if the stop still happens. I suspect it won't.

BB

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:00 am

sounds to me like youre running out of polyphony!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:01 am

Another thing is that Korg's synths support something called Active Sensing and they often don't play nice with keyboards that don't use it.

What happens is they think after a while that the MIDI cable has been unplugged so performs an all-notes-off on the keyboard.

Also typically voice stealing doesn't result in note-off commands. The synthesizer part of the keyboard just stops playing the note. So I don't think it'd be that.
Note that even monophonic or for example the four note polyphonic microkorg can still send all of its 37 keys over MIDI at the same time. In short polyphony typically does not correlate to MIDI transmission.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sun May 22, 2011 1:02 pm

X -

Shifu!

Can active sensing feature be turned off? That might be a solution that would allow the current set-up to be retained.

BB

toupeeband · Post by **toupeeband** » Sun May 22, 2011 2:47 pm

Thanks for helping to try and figure this out. I should have clarified the condition better. The note stopping short will happen if its just a single note being played. Also, I don't use the Roland as a controller. This occurs when I'm playing ON the LE. I have it MIDI'd to the Roland for one song we only occasionally play. Last nights gig it happened briefly once in the beginning and then didn't happen at all for the rest of the night. Same setup, same band, same wires into the same places. Different venue. Go figure! Also, although its never happened on the replacement LE, on the original LE keyboard It also would change the attack of sounds, giving it a slow attack. I have a feeling this was a questionable ac source. Now what?! Could it be a soft failure like a loose circuit board? Moisture? Dust?

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sun May 22, 2011 5:49 pm

So the midi cable WAS plugged in at the stoppage point? Sounding more like x-trade's active sensing fault.

Will it happen if the midi cable's not plugged in?

Are you playing on both keyboards? Is there a special set-up or combi you're using where the midi cable comes into play?

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Bad synth player's solution: program a long release time on the string program... to the point that if it suddenly stops it will not be an abrupt slam on the brakes but more a coast to a stop. That way if you need to re-trigger you can do so with minimal audible impact.

Other than that I've run out of suggestions. Good luck with it.

BB

toupeeband · Post by **toupeeband** » Sun May 22, 2011 6:22 pm

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate all the responses. The midi cable was plugged in and I'm typically just playing the LE when the problem happens. It's not related to a particular pre-set. It's happens with organ or string programs (or what ever is on at the time) and with strings in a combi as well as a long triggered sample being cut off when triggered within a combi. Yeah, it's baffling. Especially when you bring it to the repair place and can't recreate the problem. I figured if the problem happened again last night I'd then unplug the midi cable to A-B to results. But of course it was fine last night. I wonder it this particular instrument is just extra sensitive to slight AC fluctuations? Or even moisture?
If only I could roll my years of custom combis into a newer model I'd just use it as an excuse to upgrade. The last time I went from my 01w to the Triton it took me 3 months to integrate everything and recreate all the settings I need for my gig. As a cover band, I've got unique and complex combis for every song. Maybe a MUSE receptor could just record my setups as samples and that would be the quickest way. It's certainly bad timing with wedding season now here. Oh well....

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:33 pm

If you're only using MIDI for tempo sync then one way around it would be to use the Triton as the master and the Roland as the slave.

The Triton won't be expecting active sensing as there is nothing plugged into its MIDI In.

AFAIK there is no way to turn it off although I've never tried. But I did once use some controllers where I experienced long sustained notes cutting off both on the Radias and the TR. I've also seen reports of it on the MS2000 and X50.

I really don't think this is moisture or AC fluctuations and you're barking up the wrong tree. It you can't reproduce it with just this keyboard running on its own then I stand by my 1st diagnosis.

Goes without saying you're not playing any other notes or arpeggiators are you?

If you get the chance, set up your rig, go to a program or combi and assign one of the knobs to CC64 (sustain damper). Turn it all the way up and press a few notes and see how long it stays up.