So, I recorded a sound file with the record gain on my mpc1000 at the highest setting. The beginning is nothing connected to the mpc. At about 0:03 I connect some cables to the input jacks on the mpc. At about 0:10 I connect the other ends of the cables to the kp3.
At around 0:17, I hit the sample button, and the noise changed in time with the blinking of the pad leds. Then I used some effects: loop, lpf, etc.
I took the wav file, deleted the loud sounds created when connecting the cables, then normalized the whole file on Audacity.
Here is the audio clip:
kp3 is noisy
Is this normal for the kp3? Because I've heard that it does not have very good sound quality, but this is surprisingly bad.
Is the kaoss pad 3 audio really this noisy?
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The KP3 is not noisy and has excellent audio quality, so it's probably how you have it hooked up, but you haven't given any details so there's not much we can do to help until you do. Having the record gain maxed on the MPC is certainly one way to add a bunch of noise that shouldn't exist, so that's one clue that you're doing some bad things with the gain structure.
So I get that the high gain will cause sone extra noise. But the noise coming from the kp3 still shouldn't be that much higher than the noise from the unconnected cable.
I am using some hosa dual 1/4" to RCA cables to connect the mpc to the kp3. I can also hear the noise through headphones directly from the kp3, even with the headphone volume at the lowest.(although the noise does get louder when I turn up the headphones volume.)
It definitely does have something to do with the LEDs in the kp3. As I said, the noise changes in sync with the pad bank recording LEDs, but also there is a change between when the pad LEDs are off to when the little screen animations happen.
Random thought:
Could it be that I have a faulty power adaptor that cannot supply enough current? Glancing thru the forums, there's one topic where someone says that their minikp makes a high pitched noise when the batteries are low. That would also explain why the LEDs seem to affect the noise.
I am using some hosa dual 1/4" to RCA cables to connect the mpc to the kp3. I can also hear the noise through headphones directly from the kp3, even with the headphone volume at the lowest.(although the noise does get louder when I turn up the headphones volume.)
It definitely does have something to do with the LEDs in the kp3. As I said, the noise changes in sync with the pad bank recording LEDs, but also there is a change between when the pad LEDs are off to when the little screen animations happen.
Random thought:
Could it be that I have a faulty power adaptor that cannot supply enough current? Glancing thru the forums, there's one topic where someone says that their minikp makes a high pitched noise when the batteries are low. That would also explain why the LEDs seem to affect the noise.
A bad powersupply can cause noise in various ways. You could also be experiencing a ground loop. You still have described in detail how your KP3 is hooked up. The KP3 has stereo inputs and outputs and you haven't said exactly how they are connected to anything. This is particularly important information because the KP3 is an effector - so the audio you send to it is the basis for what you get out of it. If you send it a low level audio, audio with noise, or increase the input gain on the KP3, then you'll be getting a lot more output noise as a direct result.
By the way, it's normal for an audio input amplifier to dramatically increase its noise output when going from an input shorted to ground to an input with an open connection, particularly in a high gain configuration. Amplifiers don't just amplify the signal you want to amplify - they also amplify noise and generate noise. That's why you want to be very careful with high gain input circuits to keep the gain as low as possible by sending them a hot signal. The rule is to send a hot signal and keep it hot through the whole signal path - so that you never have to boost it - only cut the level. Anytime that you increase the gain of a signal, you increase the noise along with it. If you turn up the gain to the max on a high gain amp, you'll usually get a huge amount of noise in the signal regardless of how clean the signal is that you send it. The KP3 sends a nice hot signal, so it make no sense that you'd need to have the MPC input gain anywhere near the max. It sounds to me that you might be sending a very low signal level to the KP3. The KP3 input LED should be green and flickering yellow on peaks.
By the way, it's normal for an audio input amplifier to dramatically increase its noise output when going from an input shorted to ground to an input with an open connection, particularly in a high gain configuration. Amplifiers don't just amplify the signal you want to amplify - they also amplify noise and generate noise. That's why you want to be very careful with high gain input circuits to keep the gain as low as possible by sending them a hot signal. The rule is to send a hot signal and keep it hot through the whole signal path - so that you never have to boost it - only cut the level. Anytime that you increase the gain of a signal, you increase the noise along with it. If you turn up the gain to the max on a high gain amp, you'll usually get a huge amount of noise in the signal regardless of how clean the signal is that you send it. The KP3 sends a nice hot signal, so it make no sense that you'd need to have the MPC input gain anywhere near the max. It sounds to me that you might be sending a very low signal level to the KP3. The KP3 input LED should be green and flickering yellow on peaks.
So I tried recording a simple test to show how the noise level is when the volume and gain knobs are at normal settings.
MPC and kp3 both plugged in to same power strip/surge protector. MPC stereo out to kp3 line in, with dual Hosa 1/4 to RCA cable. KP# line out to MPC record in, with same kind of cable.
To record a sequence thru the kp3:
MPC global level set to 0db. (samples at half level in mpc mixer page) MPC main volume knob at around 2/3-3/4 highest setting, and kp3 input volume knob set so the metronome click is just below peaking. MPC gain knob set according to the display in the record window.
To record same sequence alone:
Same setup, but the MPC records its main out, and the main volume knob is turned down a bit, to keep the volume at a reasonable level.
The first part is the mpc solo recording. The second part is the beat thru the kp3.
noisy kp3
I could hear the difference while listening to the two samples on my mpc, and I also tried checking it on my computer, but it was no use, my iMac's headphone out is noisier than the kp3.
MPC and kp3 both plugged in to same power strip/surge protector. MPC stereo out to kp3 line in, with dual Hosa 1/4 to RCA cable. KP# line out to MPC record in, with same kind of cable.
To record a sequence thru the kp3:
MPC global level set to 0db. (samples at half level in mpc mixer page) MPC main volume knob at around 2/3-3/4 highest setting, and kp3 input volume knob set so the metronome click is just below peaking. MPC gain knob set according to the display in the record window.
To record same sequence alone:
Same setup, but the MPC records its main out, and the main volume knob is turned down a bit, to keep the volume at a reasonable level.
The first part is the mpc solo recording. The second part is the beat thru the kp3.
noisy kp3
I could hear the difference while listening to the two samples on my mpc, and I also tried checking it on my computer, but it was no use, my iMac's headphone out is noisier than the kp3.
No, the noise is still there.
And I'm sure it is from the kp3; I tried wiring some equivalent hosa 1/4 to 1/4 cables from the mpc 1 and 2 outputs back into the record in jacks. So I know how much noise the cables themselves cause, and it's not close to as much noise when run through the kp3.
I can also still hear the noise from the kp3 through the built in headphone jack, with no other cables besides the power cord and the headphones connected, even when the headphone volume knob is at the lowest point. The noise gets louder when I turn up this knob.
And I'm sure it is from the kp3; I tried wiring some equivalent hosa 1/4 to 1/4 cables from the mpc 1 and 2 outputs back into the record in jacks. So I know how much noise the cables themselves cause, and it's not close to as much noise when run through the kp3.
I can also still hear the noise from the kp3 through the built in headphone jack, with no other cables besides the power cord and the headphones connected, even when the headphone volume knob is at the lowest point. The noise gets louder when I turn up this knob.
Try a KP3 internal drum pattern. Do you hear the noise on that through the headphones? You realize that all signals have some noise, right? The more you amplify the signal, the more you raise the noise floor. The KP3 has a good dynamic range and signal to noise ratio, but it still will have some noise and distortion. The signal does have to go through A/D and D/A converters and DSP processing, so you can't expect a mirror image. The KP3 was designed for live FX, not studio mastering FX. For live use, the KP3 noise and distortion is excellent, better than most. But if you expect it to replace a studio rack FX unit, then I think you've missed the whole point of the KP3. You could still make use of it to control studio FX as a midi controller using EXT.CTL mode, however.sciguy wrote:No, the noise is still there.
And I'm sure it is from the kp3; I tried wiring some equivalent hosa 1/4 to 1/4 cables from the mpc 1 and 2 outputs back into the record in jacks. So I know how much noise the cables themselves cause, and it's not close to as much noise when run through the kp3.
I can also still hear the noise from the kp3 through the built in headphone jack, with no other cables besides the power cord and the headphones connected, even when the headphone volume knob is at the lowest point. The noise gets louder when I turn up this knob.
If you can find a store demo model to compare to, then you can see how normal it is or not. I can't tell based on your description or samples. I've never had a problem with significant or noticiable noise on mine.sciguy wrote:Yep, the noise is persistent.
The kp3 is always outputting this noise, even when there are no cables or no audio being passed to the device.
Thanks for the advice, I can live with the kp3 being noisy, I just wanted to know if it was normal.
A few quick questions about the kp3: (didn't want to start a new topic)
1. Will the KP3 accept a balanced mic input from a dynamic mic using an xlr to trs adaptor? (like audix i-5)
2. What is the difference between the two looping modes? I couldn't make out what they were trying to say in the OS 2.0 manual.
3. Is it normal that when I resample the kp3 audio (maybe also when sampling external input, haven't tried yet) there is a slight pop at the beginning of the loop? For example, resampling when no audio is playing, there is a slight pop at the beginning.
4. Is Amazon.com an authorized seller?
And I haven't gotten a chance yet to check out a kp3 in a store to see about the noise issue. But I tried using the resample feature a few times in a row, just while playing around with it, and by the 5th-ish resample, the amount of noise was pretty high.
1. Will the KP3 accept a balanced mic input from a dynamic mic using an xlr to trs adaptor? (like audix i-5)
2. What is the difference between the two looping modes? I couldn't make out what they were trying to say in the OS 2.0 manual.
3. Is it normal that when I resample the kp3 audio (maybe also when sampling external input, haven't tried yet) there is a slight pop at the beginning of the loop? For example, resampling when no audio is playing, there is a slight pop at the beginning.
4. Is Amazon.com an authorized seller?
And I haven't gotten a chance yet to check out a kp3 in a store to see about the noise issue. But I tried using the resample feature a few times in a row, just while playing around with it, and by the 5th-ish resample, the amount of noise was pretty high.