Lets discuss Kronos BUILD QUALITY:

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:24 pm

jahrome wrote:1. The data wheel problem is blown out of proportion in part due to those bashing the Kronos owner(s) that are reporting the problem.

2. Reporting that there are issues with the data wheel are not attacks; these are facts. There are at least 9 members in the forum that has this problem. Korg has recognized the data wheel problem. When I receive a new data wheel, only then has it been addressed.

3. Kronos’ data wheel is not the same as the M3 or Triton. Both of these older Korg workstations used a better component and/or design. *If Korg used the same style component and/or design as their previous workstations, it would not translate into $500 added cost at retail. (*My opinion).

1) thats your biased opinion. Many of us are noting the issue is blown out of proportion . A forum member has made it his mission to circulate the photos and his 'speculation ' to other music forums which fuels the fire unnecessarily.

2) some of the 9 keep on harping about it. Korg has responded to it.
Why did you buy a 2nd Kronos when your 1st Kronos had a faulty
data wheel ?

3) You can what if about other data wheels on other models all day long.
It is what it is. Seems useless to harp on that.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:37 pm

jahrome wrote:
StephenKay wrote:...The only issue here is that, on a few units, the tolerance between two parts isn't tight enough where they fit together. That's it. It doesn't matter what the parts are on the M3 or Triton or any other keyboard, really. If their manufactured tolerance was off, they could pop off as well. The fact that they didn't, doesn't necessarily make them a better design. They just happen to fit properly.
Nothing you say will change anything. Your continued responses to this subject just prolongs the thread. You can talk your way around the subject as much as you like. Kronos' data wheel is not up to the standard as the M3 and Triton Studio. Then you keep talking about a "few units." Last time I checked, you were not in Japan overseeing the manufacturing process.

I'm not seeking to change *your mind* - which is clearly made up over the huge enormity of this situation, such that you cannot see the forest for the trees.

Merely providing some analysis and perspective that may be useful to others. And others have already agreed.

Synthesizedclapping · Post by **Synthesizedclapping** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:43 pm

Jahrome- stop whining and let it go. It's getting annoying.

cello · Post by **cello** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:49 pm

StephenKay wrote:[... such that you cannot see the forest for the trees.

Merely providing some analysis and perspective that may be useful to others. And others have already agreed.

+1 and thanks for taking the time to do so, Mr Kay

mjames4208 · Post by **mjames4208** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:52 pm

what if the other 9 people arent kronos owners?

dustymaestro · Post by **dustymaestro** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:52 pm

It is a piece of nylon or some form of plastic. I do wonder what you guys are doing to make it pop out. It worked fine for me. Some people are heavier handed and clumsy.

Keep in mind there are people in the world that purposely mislead. The old saying goes "actions speak louder than words".

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:37 pm

Jahrome,

Throughout this thread, and on other threads, people have bent over backwards to show you respect and empathy for your "wheel" situation. Many of us were thrilled with your *first ever* end user photos and reports of your new KRONOS a few weeks ago. And most of us were shocked and concerned when you reported your data wheel issue for the first time in that very *first ever* thread. But what happened since then is beyond *YOU*. It took on a life of its own, and spread in an unfair, inaccurate, and concerning way.

Comments coming from users to *balance* and bring *perspective* to the overblown rumors that were spreading is simply reasonable, and in EVERYONES best interest, including yours as a KRONOS owner (x2 apparently). However, you have, for whatever reason, taken this as a personal attack, as if we are somehow belittling your situation, or calling you a proverbial liar (even though I and many others have gone miles out their way to express the opposite to you). You do not need (though you are certainly free to if you choose) to personally champion this data wheel issue. We all get it! Totally! It absolutely sucks that your wheel came off, TWICE, and after spending $6K on two boards, you are very disappointed, and concerned. Your experience is that you never had such problems on the M3 and Triton, so the KRONOS data wheel must be inferior. OK! Got it!

Can you please equally concede, that this issue, as you have reported it, has been nipped in the bud, very early? KORG has publicly acknowledged it, and are working on the fix, for you, and for the purported 9 others (from the totally NON-secure and NON-scientific "poll" thread), and for any future potential customer who MAY experience the same.

Whether you actually have the fix in your hands today, or not, is not related to THIS discussion. Its, rather, your personal individual customer service/support ticket with KORG. That is a whole other thread IMO...."how long does it take KORG to clear a customer support ticket?". Everyone has keyboards break from time to time....and has the unfortunate experience of having to seek warranty repair. The fact that it happened to you sucks.....but it happens! Sometimes warranty repairs take weeks to months to complete. As I understand from many reports, once you pull the data wheel off (whether intentionally or accidentally) you just insert it back on, be careful with it, and it still works. So you can continue to use your 2 new babies while Korg works it out and ships you (rather than you to them!!!!) the simple and concise fix.

All that being said, PLEASE, help US, as a fellow and valuable and respected KRONOS owner.....champion the *KRONOS* with balanced and genuine information. Your original information about the data wheel was genuine. Others blew it out of proportion, and YOU should be equally concerned about THAT. You continue to refer to these "9 other members" who have this problem....but frankly there is SO MUCH margin for error in THAT statistic that it would be a whole other topic to flesh it out. That "poll" means effectively nothing in accurately assessing the matter. 9 people hit the "problem" button on that poll....thats all. We know NOTHING more than that.

You may find this shocking.....but the fact that YOU "facilitated" the problem to happen (not intentionally of course) on TWO separate units (as you point out from two separate "countries") makes you a BAD and almost unusable "test subject" to accurately assess the problem. Could just be that you are "rough" on your keyboards....which you so much as said yourself originally, referring to your perhaps unusually extensive (aggressive?) use of the sample editor. Granted.....it didn't happen to you on the M3 and Triton....which MAY only mean that those keyboards data wheels are better equipped to handle your level of "abuse"....rather than the normal average typical user. You may not be able to see that from your perspective.....but statistically (which is all that really matters the rest of us) it is a fact.

And showing disrespect to Stephen Kay, when he has taken an interest in championing the KRONOS with fair, reasonable, and balanced information, for the good of us all... is just simply not cool or smart.

Respectfully, Sir.

Ron

*edited once to fix a simple typo*

mjames4208 · Post by **mjames4208** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:58 pm

cello · Post by **cello** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:12 pm

Very fair and balanced post RonF. Good work.

Agreed and +1

Subpar · Post by **Subpar** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:50 pm

RonF wrote:Jahrome,

Throughout this thread, and on other threads, people have bent over backwards to show you respect and empathy for your "wheel" situation. Many of us were thrilled with your *first ever* end user photos and reports of your new KRONOS a few weeks ago. And most of us were shocked and concerned when you reported your data wheel issue for the first time in that very *first ever* thread. But what happened since then is beyond *YOU*. It took on a life of its own, and spread in an unfair, inaccurate, and concerning way.

Comments coming from users to *balance* and bring *perspective* to the overblown rumors that were spreading is simply reasonable, and in EVERYONES best interest, including yours as a KRONOS owner (x2 apparently). However, you have, for whatever reason, taken this as a personal attack, as if we are somehow belittling your situation, or calling you a proverbial liar (even though I and many others have gone miles out their way to express the opposite to you). You do not need (though you are certainly free to if you choose) to personally champion this data wheel issue. We all get it! Totally! It absolutely sucks that your wheel came off, TWICE, and after spending $6K on two boards, you are very disappointed, and concerned. Your experience is that you never had such problems on the M3 and Triton, so the KRONOS data wheel must be inferior. OK! Got it!

Can you please equally concede, that this issue, as you have reported it, has been nipped in the bud, very early? KORG has publicly acknowledged it, and are working on the fix, for you, and for the purported 9 others (from the totally NON-secure and NON-scientific "poll" thread), and for any future potential customer who MAY experience the same.

Whether you actually have the fix in your hands today, or not, is not related to THIS discussion. Its, rather, your personal individual customer service/support ticket with KORG. That is a whole other thread IMO...."how long does it take KORG to clear a customer support ticket?". Everyone has keyboards break from time to time....and has the unfortunate experience of having to seek warranty repair. The fact that it happened to you sucks.....but it happens! Sometimes warranty repairs take weeks to months to complete. As I understand from many reports, once you pull the data wheel off (whether intentionally or accidentally) you just insert it back on, be careful with it, and it still works. So you can continue to use your 2 new babies while Korg works it out and ships you (rather than you to them!!!!) the simple and concise fix.

All that being said, PLEASE, help US, as a fellow and valuable and respected KRONOS owner.....champion the *KRONOS* with balanced and genuine information. Your original information about the data wheel was genuine. Others blew it out of proportion, and YOU should be equally concerned about THAT. You continue to refer to these "9 other members" who have this problem....but frankly there is SO MUCH margin for error in THAT statistic that it would be a whole other topic to flesh it out. That "poll" means effectively nothing in accurately assessing the matter. 9 people hit the "problem" button on that poll....thats all. We know NOTHING more than that.

You may find this shocking.....but the fact that YOU "facilitated" the problem to happen (not intentionally of course) on TWO separate units (as you point out from two separate "countries") makes you a BAD and almost unusable "test subject" to accurately assess the problem. Could just be that you are "rough" on your keyboards....which you so much as said yourself originally, referring to your perhaps unusually extensive (aggressive?) use of the sample editor. Granted.....it didn't happen to you on the M3 and Triton....which MAY only mean that those keyboards data wheels are better equipped to handle your level of "abuse"....rather than the normal average typical user. You may not be able to see that from your perspective.....but statistically (which is all that really matters the rest of us) it is a fact.

And showing disrespect to Stephen Kay, when he has taken an interest in championing the KRONOS with fair, reasonable, and balanced information, for the good of us all... is just simply not cool or smart.

Respectfully, Sir.

Ron

*edited once to fix a simple typo*

Very well written. +1

jahrome · Post by **jahrome** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:47 am

It seems we have a few experts that know what is going on in Japan. Well, I live here. It’s been business as usual for over two months now.

The topic of the thread is “Lets discuss build quality.” If you don’t own the keyboard, there really isn’t much you can add to the conversation to bring balance or perspective. If you are one of those that are annoyed by the topic and feel its blown out of proportion, simply ignore it. It’s pretty useless for you to harp on the subject. I say this respectfully. As I have never disrespected anyone in this forum for any reason to include Mr. Kay. Implying that I have is inaccurate and misleading.

Why do I own two Kronos? It’s simple. I wanted two keyboards. When the first arrived, I immediately reported the issue. Although I was disappointed, I didn’t want to send it back not knowing when I would get another. So I waited for the second keyboard to arrive and planned to return the first. The second arrived with the same issue. I used the same “heavy or rough hands” with Korg Triton Studio, Motif, and Fantom X/G. The data wheels on these keyboards do not wobble or pop out. I used the same “heavy or rough hands” with the Akai MPC 1000, 2000, 2000XL, 2500, 3000, 4000, and 5000. You see where this is going? I never had issues with data wheel on these workstations. All of these workstations to include previous Korg models where able to withstand “my level of abuse.” This has already been detailed in this forum. And no assistance from Korg UNTIL it became a hot topic in the forum. The problem was not “nipped in the bud early.” From my experience, once Kronos data wheel pops out once, it will happen again; each time, its gets easier to do so.

If you desperately want a Kronos, I will be happy to part with one and you can be the 10th forum member with this issue.

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:56 am

Personally, I don't own a Kronos.
However, and this is where I feel you are totally wrong, my opinion on the matter is JUST as valid as yours, or anybody else's.
Nobody as far as I can see is decrying from the fact that there is an issue, however what is getting very tiresome is the constant reference to something that is in the process of being addressed. It comes over as quite childish, to keep repeating oneself over and over.
And as an observer and "enjoyer" of this forum, I would much rather hear about the good things from users rather than issues we are fully aware of, and trust Korg to sort out.
I will buy my (new

) Kronos fully aware that I may have a data-wheel issue, and that it may need addressing. I only say "may" due to the lack of overwhelming reports about the data-wheel.
I also am not bothered as yesterday, just out of morbid curiosity, I went around my keyboard rig, pulling data-wheels off!

Kurzweil K2000 (cost me 2x as much as the Kronos is) - data-wheel came straight off.
Roland XP 30, data-wheel came straight off. Yamaha SY77, data-wheel came straight off.
What does this prove? Very little - wheels come off, but they get put back on, and get on with it.

So the point of my post? Yes I/we get and sympathise that you feel you're not getting speedy-enough support from Korg. But that sympathy dissipates VERY quickly (I've personally entertained your concerns since you first announced the issue) now there is constant reference to it - and sadly, where I used to look forward to reading your posts, I know tend to skip over your contributions as I assume that there will be some sort of complaint about the same thing.
Which is a shame as you've probably had Kronos the longest (with exception of Korg themselves!!)

But this particular issue you skated over in your last post and ignored.

So again I implore you - there must be some great things you've discovered about this machine: tell us

Dan
True? I don't know, but that's the impression being given.

jahrome · Post by **jahrome** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:26 am

ScoobyDoo555 wrote:Personally, I don't own a Kronos....

That says it all. In my opinion, nothing you say is valid until you actually own one and can share your experiences with it. If you don't like this thread, don't read it. There are numerous great threads in the forum that you can read. I suggest you read those since this one is causing you great heartache.

As far as the data wheel...pulling it off isn't the issue. As you pointed out, you can pull off the data wheel off other workstations. The question is..do they come off during normal use? I would guess no.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:33 am

jahrome wrote:As far as the data wheel...pulling it off isn't the issue. As you pointed out, you can pull off the data wheel off other workstations. The question is..do they come off during normal use? I would guess no.

Right. So hence, there is no problem with the construction or design of the data wheel, it simply isn't quite tight enough. All of them can be pulled off. Just, they are tighter. Doesn't matter what they are made of. It could be made out of solid gold, if the tolerance of the part meeting the part that grips it isn't tight enough, then it might be loose and come off. Surely you can see the logic of that? Korg is going to send you one that is tighter, I'm sure. Problem solved. If you don't like waiting, since you are in Tokyo Japan, maybe you could just take a drive (or train) over to Korg, they're not that far from you, you know.

Korg Inc.
4015-2 Yanokuchi
Inagi-City, Tokyo
206-0812 Japan

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:36 am

Once again, you've TOTALLY (or conveniently) missed my point (that is JUST as valid as yours - don't give a t0ss what your opinion is on that).

IMHO, you've become so clouded by this issue that it's becoming consuming.

Just to re-iterate: I get that you have an issue. Korg have released a statement that it's going to be addressed. Everybody else (unless they're keeping quiet) is happy with this except for you.

Patience is a virtue, my friend (I'm fully experiencing this as the Kronos hasn't been released in the UK yet.)

The data-wheel reference was that a GREAT many people are zoning in on trying to get the wheel to come off.
But I fear you can't see the woods for the trees right now.

I've made my point, and respectfully requested that you leave it there. This obviously isn't going to happen because you can't let it go.
I, on the other hand, can: good luck with your machines.