Why I chose not to get Kronos(Keep M3)

Discussion relating to the Korg M3 Workstation.

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HardSync
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Post by HardSync »

biggrime wrote:If money was not a issue I would get it.
True. Money is always an issue. That 41 cents you rescued from your M3's keybed ain't gonna get you a Kronos, that's for sure. And just in case you were thinking it, don't be tempted to invite the 4-year-old back in to your studio, either. It'll take ages to get enough coins to buy a Kronos. :)
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Gargamel314
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Post by Gargamel314 »

I WAS going to be sad about losing the pads on the M3... but they do have their drawbacks. Mine worked great when i first bought it, but now they're doing that thing where they get stuck and either don't release, or don't let me hit them as hard as i want to. I was recording guitar parts the other day and had to do like 10 takes because the pads kept getting stuck. If my M3 were still under warranty, I would totally get them fixed. But I'm thinking as time goes on, they're not going to last, even if I do get them replaced. Maybe a Korg NanoPad2 would be a smart choice, since I do most of my sequencing in a DAW anyway.

As far as the sequencer features go, I'm betting Kronos will eventually get updated to match the M3 at least. It'll be a long while until I'm able to afford a new Kronos, but in the meantime, I have to keep reminding myself that I have an M3, which is a WICKED AWESOME INSTRUMENT. The electric guitar amp effects are amazing, and except for the strings, which I've replaced with my own samples, everything in that instrument is pristine-sounding. If it really weren't in my budget at all, I'd be satisfied with the M3 for many more years to come.
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gurn
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Post by gurn »

I'd actually buy another M3m before I would buy a KRONOS.
I might be working out of town on week-ends in the near future.

Having a 2nd M3m would kind of make sense, especially now that you
can pick one up on EBay for around $1100.

A KRONOS makes no sense for me.
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biggrime
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Post by biggrime »

Gargamel314 wrote:I WAS going to be sad about losing the pads on the M3... but they do have their drawbacks. Mine worked great when i first bought it, but now they're doing that thing where they get stuck and either don't release, or don't let me hit them as hard as i want to. I was recording guitar parts the other day and had to do like 10 takes because the pads kept getting stuck. If my M3 were still under warranty, I would totally get them fixed. But I'm thinking as time goes on, they're not going to last, even if I do get them replaced. Maybe a Korg NanoPad2 would be a smart choice, since I do most of my sequencing in a DAW anyway.

As far as the sequencer features go, I'm betting Kronos will eventually get updated to match the M3 at least. It'll be a long while until I'm able to afford a new Kronos, but in the meantime, I have to keep reminding myself that I have an M3, which is a WICKED AWESOME INSTRUMENT. The electric guitar amp effects are amazing, and except for the strings, which I've replaced with my own samples, everything in that instrument is pristine-sounding. If it really weren't in my budget at all, I'd be satisfied with the M3 for many more years to come.
I have a love/hate for the pads. The pads I use more for chords then drums. The first one is sticking a little the rest are fine. I use the pads more on hand percussion sounds then kick and snare. Kronos not having pads is not a deal breaker cause they still have a feature where you can touch the screen to play chords.

As far as the Kronos sequencer. I am not sure if Korg will ever update it to = the M3's. Some one who works with Korg says that the cue list feature can not be used in a professional application. So if he is thinking that way then how is korg thinking? The idea of doing everything on your keyboard and not use a computer is something most people do not think about doing. So I guess they want to cater to the masses
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manjeroque
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Post by manjeroque »

Gargamel314 wrote:I WAS going to be sad about losing the pads on the M3... but they do have their drawbacks. Mine worked great when i first bought it, but now they're doing that thing where they get stuck and either don't release, or don't let me hit them as hard as i want to. I was recording guitar parts the other day and had to do like 10 takes because the pads kept getting stuck. If my M3 were still under warranty, I would totally get them fixed. But I'm thinking as time goes on, they're not going to last, even if I do get them replaced.
Hello, Gargamel!
recently i got used M3m and noticed that pads worked differently and some required to press right in the center to work and it was not easy to play with it)
but once i saw an option "Calibrate pads" (or smth like this) in Global mode (the menu from top right corner) and now pads work just great after calibration!
hope it will help you too! :)
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Gargamel314
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Post by Gargamel314 »

I figured that out too after a couple months... and it did help, but the past couple of months, the problem i've been having is that the pads get physically stuck in the down position (or sometimes not fully up), so they respond kinda strangely. It might be because it's summer, and the humidity is up. Some days they're not too bad, but other days, like last night, they were impossible to deal with. I even tried re-calibrating them again, but it didn't help at all. I wonder if OASYS users had this same problem. Thank you for trying to help tho!
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iluvchiclets
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Post by iluvchiclets »

Hi all,

I own an M50, but I spend time in the M3 forums as a lot of the sounds apply in a similar way being the same sound engine...

I just played a Kronos not 30 minutes ago, it's the first one I have seen in Toronto area (GTA). I was surprised at how similar it sounded to the M50!? It did not spend much time with the Kronos pianos as I find that pianos, regardless if they come from a Motif or from Korg, are subjective and a sound that each player gets used to. I loved my Motif pianos, and I currently love my M50 (and Kim Lajoie) pianos sounds.

However, I didn't get that big a thrill out of the Kronos Electric Pianos and Organs. They sound very similar to the M50 in terms of timbres and presets. I was hoping for a completely new experience for the price of the keyboard (approx $3000 CAD) but it sounded a lot like my M50.

My initial feeling of the CX-3 engine was a let down. It sounded as if Korg missed the Chorus/Vibrato effect...it is a weak-point in the M50, and it does not appear to be improved on the Kronos. One listen to a Nord, or a Roland VK8M, or VB3...you can really hear the difference.

These two points (EPs and Organs) were the reason I was interested in the Kronos.

Now, I have to admit, spending 20 minutes on the keyboard means I should be cautious about rating it in any way, but my initial listen was a bit of let-down. For that kind of $$$ I was expecting to be "blown away!"

The build on the Kronos was fantastic, it felt completely professional and solid...a good 100% better than the M50.

When I get more time, I am hopefully going to find the Kronos still available at the store, and spend some more time with it. The reason I wrote here was in sympathy with the original author:

Could it be that I will pass on this lovely new Kronos and stick with my M50? It appears to be a possibility! There is good reason to weigh all of the options before jumping into a new keyboard purchase.
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Post by yeloop »

drama1 wrote:I'll chime in. The M3 comes in a 73 key semi-weighted version, making it good for piano and splits. It's fairly lightweight (37lbs) for the weekend warrior compared to the 73 Kronos weighted (47 lbs) especially if you throw in a case. Also the M3 is in a C-C config whereas the Kronos is E-E. I much prefer the C-C. I get the smooth sound transition using the Karma function for live performance, which is great. Played the Kronos last week at guitrctr and I must admit, there is a sound quality difference, although in a live situation I don't see it making that much of a difference. Just my humble opinion.
Hey Drama1,

I'd love some info on how you use Karma on your M3 for smooth sound transition.

I'm weighing up between an M3 (and a Nord Lead 2X!) and Kronos, and one of the big appeals for Kronos is the smooth sound transition.

However I have heard a few times now that Karma can be used for this purpose.

Is this something that is easy to do? Can it be used to go from one combi to another smoothly, or only from one program to another?

How many "tranisitons" can I make? IE - I'm assuming (as a non-Karma user at the moment, I currently have a Triton) that it's the "scenes" that are set up for each instrument you want to transition between - are there four available, or more?

My last question is - can this work well even for heavily effected combis? Is it effectively the same as Kronos's smooth sound transition, just implemented a bit sneakily using Karma?

Anything you can share with me would be great, as this is a big differentiator for the Kronos as far as gigging goes, and if this method really can take the place of SST I will probably go with the M3!

Cheers and thanks!
Mike
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Post by drama1 »

There's a wiki article on Stephen Kay's site for instructions on how to achieve smooth sound transition using Karma on the M3. SST on the M3 is all done in one combi (16 programs). The only drawback that I see using Karma for SST on the M3 is you limited EFX to work with..I get around the EFX limitation quite well, expecially for live purposes. And the fact that the scene buttons are right above my left had for switching combi/programs is a breeze for SST in live performance. At least it is for me. I play a lot of country/soft rock and I'm keeping the M3 because it is lightweight, C-C keybed and covers everything I do really well.
Here are two youtubes I have seen with SST using the M3. The first really demonstrates SST, the second is some w*nk*r shredder using the SST live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeouK8w8Ogk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QStUZOaSQ
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Better Late...

Post by electro21 »

Like BIGGRIME, I wanted a board that I could do everything on the board without having to even come close to a PC. I play live at various churches and make training CDs for my singers and musicians so tweaking and tuning are not a major priority like a full size bed and weighted keys, adjusting. The M3 and the Fantom series had the better keybed to me, and the Motif was just to time consuming to navigate through for live performances. I bought the M3 88 without ever playing one. The music store gave me 30 days to try it out and I could exchange it for the full purchase price on something else. If you look at vids on how to sequence on the Motif and fantom, the M3 seems so much faster and a lot less confusing. Sam Tolbert uses a keyboard from the late 90's and the CEO of hearandplay.com still uses his 2001 Triton. These are guys who have a business based around playing a piano. I could use another M3M to load the other Korg sound set and some new 3rd party sounds. I have already created custom sounds that would overwritten otherwise (can't have that.) Personally, I could never use more than one high-end workstation at the same time. There are a lot of people who can't play in all the keys and use keyboards to get them through, instead of learning the keys. I think SOME get so focused on the gear (like I used to) instead of why we bought the gear! I'll have my M3 until it breaks and I can no longer get it fixed.
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Re: Better Late...

Post by apex »

electro21 wrote:Like BIGGRIME, I wanted a board that I could do everything on the board without having to even come close to a PC. I play live at various churches and make training CDs for my singers and musicians so tweaking and tuning are not a major priority like a full size bed and weighted keys, adjusting. The M3 and the Fantom series had the better keybed to me, and the Motif was just to time consuming to navigate through for live performances. I bought the M3 88 without ever playing one. The music store gave me 30 days to try it out and I could exchange it for the full purchase price on something else. If you look at vids on how to sequence on the Motif and fantom, the M3 seems so much faster and a lot less confusing. Sam Tolbert uses a keyboard from the late 90's and the CEO of hearandplay.com still uses his 2001 Triton. These are guys who have a business based around playing a piano. I could use another M3M to load the other Korg sound set and some new 3rd party sounds. I have already created custom sounds that would overwritten otherwise (can't have that.) Personally, I could never use more than one high-end workstation at the same time. There are a lot of people who can't play in all the keys and use keyboards to get them through, instead of learning the keys. I think SOME get so focused on the gear (like I used to) instead of why we bought the gear! I'll have my M3 until it breaks and I can no longer get it fixed.
electro are you on the learngospelmusic website? if so, what's your screen name? i'm over there... "APEX"
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iixorbiusii
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Post by iixorbiusii »

@iluvchiclets

I know what you mean - I have demo'd the Kronos for about 2 hours in total now and have also been expecting something far beyond what I already have today in a modern workstation ( I have an M3 with Radias EXB ); but I too haven't been blown away yet.

I get the impression that for those musicians whom an acoustic piano sound is the be-all-and-end-all, the 4GB piano is probably something they appreciate more so than me - if I use a piano sound in my music, it'll more likely be the M1 Piano !!! ( :oops: )

I can hear that the K is obviously 'better' than the M3.... it's just not significantly different enough for my specific needs.

I got some good custom combis going with the M3 - I dare say that if I actually owned a Kronos, I'd probably see the light... I just haven't taken the bait yet.
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Post by Slovenec »

This topic reminds me of my 'dilemma' 20 years ago in 1991 when the O1W was released. I purchased a T3 a year before (and I still own and love that board). The O1W was released that offered almost more of everything when compared to the T3, twice the polyphony, twice the sequencer tracks, twice the sequencer resolution, more fx types etc. However, upon playing the O1W extensively, I came to the solid conclusion that the T3 actually still sounded 'better'! I can't describe the difference but the overall sound in the O1W just didn't do it for me in the same way as that coming from the T3. I now have but an O1W and T3 sitting on the same keyboard stand and I still feel 20 years later the the T3 sounds 'better'! :)

The point here is that if you like your M3 and continue to make great music with it, then don't change for the sake of change to the Kronos! The Kronos offers more than the M3 in almost every area except sequencer features and Radias capability. However, if it doesn't bring anything majorly new to your music, then stick with the M3 and continue using it for many years to come.

I've owned heaps of Korg and Roland equipment over the last 21 years and have sold everything except the 1st keyboard I every purchased.... the fantastic Korg T3! :) :)
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electro21
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Re: Better Late...

Post by electro21 »

apex wrote: electro are you on the learngospelmusic website? if so, what's your screen name? i'm over there... "APEX"
No, sorry. I learned how to play from hearandplay.com DVDs, or books I got from Barnes and Nobles. How long you been playing? I started back in 2004, but didn't really START until 2007.
Slovenec wrote:This topic reminds me of my 'dilemma' 20 years ago in 1991 when the O1W was released. I purchased a T3 a year before (and I still own and love that board). The O1W was released that offered almost more of everything when compared to the T3, twice the polyphony, twice the sequencer tracks, twice the sequencer resolution, more fx types etc. However, upon playing the O1W extensively, I came to the solid conclusion that the T3 actually still sounded 'better'! I can't describe the difference but the overall sound in the O1W just didn't do it for me in the same way as that coming from the T3. I now have but an O1W and T3 sitting on the same keyboard stand and I still feel 20 years later the the T3 sounds 'better'! :)

The point here is that if you like your M3 and continue to make great music with it, then don't change for the sake of change to the Kronos! The Kronos offers more than the M3 in almost every area except sequencer features and Radias capability. However, if it doesn't bring anything majorly new to your music, then stick with the M3 and continue using it for many years to come.

I've owned heaps of Korg and Roland equipment over the last 21 years and have sold everything except the 1st keyboard I every purchased.... the fantastic Korg T3! :) :)
Now that was inspiring! My Father told me, "New bells and whistles won't make you play better. It'll just make the mistakes clearer, lol!" Gotta love the old man, lol
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