PinkFloydDudi wrote:Some of the things the JP80 did with what you are referring to were definitely cool. Like a slide on the bass guitar when I did a quick run up. Some were like "OH COOL...that is how I wanted it to sound". But then other times, like I said, what if I don't want those things to happen?
I guess the behavior modeling is very cool at times - but I think it forces you to behave a certain way that I may not want to.
Well said. You managed to articulate exactly how I've been feeling about this, but I couldn't find the right words to explain it.
I absolutely do hear that the JP80 articulations are doing something unique and original, which cannot really be emulated on other instruments. I didn't personally click with it, but can absolutely see why many would.
I also don't buy the argument that this is in any way similar to the kind of sample switching and scripted articulations found in high end samplers such as Kontakt. Sure, they are both means toward the end of expressive acoustic reproductions, but the musical experience is totally different. The JP80 approach is to play in realtime on a keyboard, and use an expert system to analyse what you played, infer your musical intent, and add all kinds of nuance beyond what can be directly expressed just by pressing a key. Wheras the Kontakt approach is programming as opposed to performance, using lots of additional switches to specify exactly what you want to happen for every note. Not the same thing at all.
So why didn't I click with the JP80 articulations?
For me it felt like there was a layer in between me and the sound, and I didn't like that indirection. Looked at from an information theory sense, there is no way a realtime keyboard performance can possibly provide as much expression as playing on a violin or saxophone! The JP80 has a number of ways to read your expressive intent:
- Key velocity
- Aftertouch
- Nuance of phrase timing (stacatto vs. legato)
- Foot pedal
- Mod wheel
- DBeam
(although from what I've seen, the articulations don't make much use of mod or dbeam - or did I miss that part?)
But this is nowhere near as much data as a violinist can control within a single note:
- Bow pressure
- Bow speed
- Bow direction
- Bow angle (parallel or perpendicular to the string)
- Bow twist (how many of the hairs are in contact with the string)
- Finger position (pitch / vibrato)
- Finger roll (sliding vs. rotating alters timbre, producing different quality of vibrato)
A skilled performer will be constantly altering all of these parameters, so even as something as simple as "vibrato" can change in speed, depth, and relative effect on pitch, timbre, and volume, during the course of every note (real acoustic vibratos aren't just pitch modulation!)
There is no way any keyboard based input mechanism can provide this level of realtime control. The JP80 is not magic, and cannot read data that fundamentally does not exist! Instead, it does a great job of using all the pieces of data it does have (mostly very fine detail of key timing from what I can tell) to work out your intent, and then "fills in the blanks" to recreate all these missing nuances. The end result can certainly be very expressive, but it's not totally direct control. The performer can specify things like "legato phrase, ok, now a phrasing break, ok, really lean into this note now", but they still aren't controlling the exact rate and depth of vibrato like they would on a real acoustic instrument.
Exaggerating slightly, but to me playing the JP80 almost felt like I was writing down a score, annotating it with all kinds of detailed expression markings, and then handing it to a different musician who performed it on my behalf. The result was beautiful, and accurately followed my instructions, but there was still a layer of filling in detail that I did not explicitly provide, so there were nuances in the final result which I was not directly controlling.
I can totally see why people like this instrument. Nuances are good, right? Ability to play expressive, nuanced lines in realtime from a regular keyboard even better.
But for me, I just didn't like the feeling that there was someone else in between me and the final sound. It was like a milder form of the feeling I get when playing arranger keyboards (and surely no accident that this sort of articulation technology originated in the arranger world?) - "sure, that sounds nice and rich and musical, but I just triggered it and now someone else is doing all this work on my behalf, leaving me somewhat freaked out by not feeling sufficiently in control..."
So where does that leave me, if I want nuanced expression but with 100% direct, hands on control?
- I love playing keyboard sounds (piano, EP, organ) where there is by definition no missing control data, so I'm not missing any expressive potential compared to the real instrument.
- I love playing abstract synth sounds, where expression comes from twiddling knobs on the fly.
- I love using a breath controller, or rocking a finger on the Z1 X/Y pad to control vibrato (not just turning it on and then letting an LFO modulate pitch, but directly mapping tiny finger movements so I can control vibrato rate and depth on the fly within every note)
- I use sampled acoustic emulations when I have to, but don't love them because I've never found an instrument where these sounds felt hands-on expressive enough for me (JP80 for different reasons than others, but I still didn't love it). So I tend to avoid these sounds, and/or bury them in the background of my mixes.
For me, that makes the Kronos a better fit and more inspiring instrument than the JP80 (more knobs to twiddle, ribbon, vector joystick = goodness).
I suspect that people working more with acoustic instrument recreations, and especially those not using breath control, will be drawn more to the JP80.
That's how I figure it, anyway...
i can make beautiful guitars with a VL-1