Suggestion regarding all of the "complaint" thread

drchris · Post by **drchris** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:09 pm

I agree with the OP. I too find myself coming here much less and contributing much less because of the negativity - much over "issues" that are not real (granted, also some over real issues).

This forum is not owned or controlled by Korg, they simply give the community the server space to host.

If a sub forum was dedicated to problems, those threads are in no way hidden to potential buyers, and will likely attract them as they are thinking of making a significant investment.

My biggest fear with the negativity is that many of us will come here less and less and post less and less and we will have a significantly reduced quality of discussion about the Kronos.

It's not the job of the satisfied users to constantly post positive comments to offset the negative. (When we do, often the treads are hijacked with negativity anyway.) We're not the defenders of the Kronos. We're simply satisfied users who do want a place to come to share ideas on a forum that is not mostly complaints and reviews.

We will see what this forum becomes, but it is certainly drawing my attention much less due to the increasing negativity - especially when much of that negativity is not warranted.

Just my thoughts,
Chris

BTW, after initially writing, I went to look at the forum again, of the 11 threads with new activity overnight, 5 of them were complaints, reviews or praises. 6 were actually dealing with usage questions, answers and tips.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:14 pm

ScoobyDoo555 wrote:Correct Jim,

However, I feel that there are a disproportionate amount of negative posts aimed at Kronos...... therefore the Mods job of creating a balanced opinion IS a worthwhile exercise.

Sorry to diagree, Scooby.
But I think it is exactly not a moderator's job to "create a balanced opinion".
Moderators should not influence opinions in any possible way.
The should prevent misuse of the forum and offtopics just as multiple threads of the exact same subject. I have been co-moderator myself for a while. And I think Sharp and his comoderators are doing an exceptionally fine job, interfering only where it is required.

I would rather like to concentrate on what Nedim said:
It isn't of much use for new Kronos users to see "Kronos is great" or "Kronos is bad" threads. But it is useful if they see threads where we discuss how we use the Kronos, how it helps being creative, and how we get things done with it. There could be more contributions from all of us on this constructive side of musical creativity.

MRedZac · Post by **MRedZac** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:18 pm

What you think, why people here are complaining so much ? - There must be some reason for this...

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Jim you are right but as Chris said some people find themselfs here less and less
everyday due to the useless posts...cuz there is no need to post something.
For example:
If i come here today and see 10 of those useless post while no post asks a
speciffic question or someone needing help i dont think there is a need for me
or you to post in a I AM HAPPY topic...if you understand me. And that is the
reason some active and usefull users shy away already. That is also a loss
to the beginners with Korg who will find their question not answered as
fast and frequently as they used to be a while ago...
Lets take this topic for example:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 75&start=0
nothing against the OP but there is no need for it, first of all there is 10 or
more of this Topics and second why do i care who is happy or not...but the whole
point is that there is already 10 of these on board.

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:37 pm

I'm not suggesting that the impression to outsiders be skewed in any way, but Moderators DO keep forums tidy.

That is difficult at the moment due to the amount of complaints in the forums.

And I agree - Mods and Sharp do a great job (it's a thankless task at the best of times!)

Whilst the actual details are a debatable subject (and personal opinion will play heavily on this), my understanding is that we do agree something needs to be done.

Still boils down to the fact there seems to be a fair few people who have no wish to contribute to a (great) forum because they're not will to trawl through the negativity to get to the other stuff.

And that is a crying shame.

Post by **Sharp** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:40 pm

Trying to pigeon-hole negative experiences people experience with the KRONOS into some remote part of the forum is called censorship.

The function of this forum is to provide YOU ALL with a community. Even if it means some must complain a little.

Much of what happens here is up to YOU just as much as everyone else. Anyone in this thread saying they don't come here as much any more over of the compliants needs to realise that they are doing more harm here than the people complaining. You also don't "Get It" about this forum.

If you want to see good content, more positive things, great honest posting, YOUguys are the ones who need to do it. Moderators are not here to provide the content.

Regards
Sharp.

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:50 pm

OK Sharp, thanks for your input

However, 2 things spring to mind..... firstly the "complaining a little"......

The definition of a "little" (in my mind anyway) isn't around 25% of posts....
That's a lot

Secondly, the censorship aspect is a VERY valid point, but also quite a grey area.

When posts are put in the wrong section, Mods move them to tidy up the forum. Yes?

The "grey" aspect is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't!

A sub-forum or sticky-thread for "issues" isn't censorship imho. Especially if it's not "buried" merely organises the issues to one particular point - also if Korg are alerted to this area as matters of urgency, for example, it may also help out - perhaps a chat with Korg Customer Service to see if they'd be willing (like Dan & Rich do) to contribute?

I don't know. Perhaps I'm coming up with a question that nobody's asked....(nor feel is even relevant) but I don't think I'm the only person getting put off by all this negativity. Just trying to find a way forward - hence asking those who have more knowledge in forum-management than myself

DAn

Post by **Sharp** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:05 pm

The definition of a "little" (in my mind anyway) isn't around 25% of posts....

25% of posts across how many threads?

On the main KRONOS page I see only two actual threads which could be classed as complaining.

How does 2 threads = 25% ?

If you don't like what you see, stop reading those threads. They are clearly not for you since you do not have the problems experienced by those users.

Secondly, the censorship aspect is a VERY valid point, but also quite a grey area.

When posts are put in the wrong section, Mods move them to tidy up the forum. Yes?

The "grey" aspect is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't!

Moving a thread to the relevant and already existing area of the forum is different from what your asking for.

I don't open the Junk Mail folder on my PC to read email I deem a junk. What your pretty much asking for is a system like that by where us mods move or demand all negative threads are moved to.

That's censorship.

Regards
Sharp

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:06 pm

Food for thought then:

If there's no way forward with the existing suggestions, is there method for forum users to hide or "ignore" threads?

Not quite as subtle, but on other forums, users can "ignore" other users, so any "offending" posts can be hidden.....

Don't know if this function is available.

Can you "hide" subject threads?
Granted you'd see new threads when you first logged in, but you could hide the stuff you don't want to look at.....
Not saying it's good or bad - just thinking of other options

Dan

at the time of writing this morning, 10 of the 40-odd threads on the first page, were dealing with issues and complaints, hence my 25% comment (just to clarify)

EDIT:

Just wanted to say "thankyou" to everybody for keeping this a civil thread

Also, surely, if you've got a section for complaints (for example), if you ask your users to post directly into that section, and they don't, you or the Mods would move the content to the relevant section.
My (albeit LIMITED) understanding is that this isn't censorship.
This could be a suggestion for the complaints aspect.
And I'm not trying to be ar$ey - quite the opposite, just helpful

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:12 pm

Sharp wrote:If you want to see good content, more positive things, great honest posting, YOUguys are the ones who need to do it. Moderators are not here to provide the content.

exactly,

where are all the positive contributions from all those happy owners?

There are a few that actually take the time to contribute positive things, like a positive experience, a track they made, software, tutorials, tips, tricks or questions how to get the most out of your beloved kronos.

that makes a good forum. If not many people take time for that, then the complain posts will be in the majority. Also this thread is another complain thread about the complains

So i can understand that it's hard to think of something positive, but it can be done. I'm having a lot of fun with my kronos and although i'm critical i'm also trying to post positive things on this forum. If everybody does that, then your wish comes true

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:17 pm

qrobinez - LOL!!

Yeh, I did contemplate the irony when I wrote this earlier!!

jazlover · Post by **jazlover** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:22 pm

My 2 cents: (Sharp and you have posted since I typed this... OK I'll post anyway)

We all would love to think that we sway great influence on Korg corporate direction in Japan. Once our keyboard buying decision is made, our influence is likely never noticeable to the corporate board. However our influence to this Website is tremendous and can be lethal like poison. Many of us remember the slow death to the great Website that preceded Irishacts and Korg Forums (thank you Sharp). How many great contributors here just disappeared because they tire of the onslaught of negativity. The irony to me is that corporate Korg is influenced by a positive website but they need not care about a negative website because only the negative people go there.

I chuckle at the knee jerk, noble response from those who champion "I will always put honesty 1st".."free speech man". Can anyone ever remember a time anyone on this site advocated dishonesty? I have been here as long as anyone, you will never see Sharp promote that, period. We do however have an obligation to one another. We can't just run roughshod over each other in the name of free speech.

This site is great because of the vast store of info and creativity. The easier it is to get info on the tools, the industry, music writing and the differences in different place in the world ....the better. I believe we need more Mp3 and videos so we can see each others creativity. I hope to contribute to that in Feb with a live video. There is an ocean of experience here and amazing instruments and tools to make it happen.

Long live Korgforums!

jazlover · Post by **jazlover** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:24 pm

Grobenez... your examples are great ...thank you!

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:38 pm

The reason why there are complaints right now is very simple: people have problems with their KRONOS.

They have spent a lot of money, they want to make music, and the KRONOS simply does not function as it should.
I can understand their frustration, and I also can understand why those who have a perfect KRONOS are wondering what all the fuss is about.

Once KORG provides and implements the solutions and the problems disappear, complaints will diminish proportionally.

In the meantime, if I would not want to read any complaints I would skip over those kind of threads, and focus on the other threads which I do find interesting.
Isn't that something we all do when we visit other forums?

theo73 · Post by **theo73** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:12 pm

I joined and have been reading this forum since the Kronos was introduced last year at NAMM. I saw the complaints and issues. Still, I saved my money and bought the Kronos 73 knowing very well it may have problems. And it does!

The RH3 issues in a sticky thread is hardly sweeping it under a rug. It's the first thing you see. It is where you go to get information on the issue. Same with the fan issue for those having a problem with it.

I do see complaining and whining. I see folks who seem to have nothing better to do than stir things up and let us all know how horrible Korg is or how much better this or that synth or workstation is. Many don't even own or intend on purchasing the Kronos. I take all this with the grain of salt.

I really like my Kronos. It is in fact the best keyboard I've ever owned. The issues will be resolved. I feel I made an informed decision in my purchase because of folks posting the problems they were having. I would prefer that to keeping everything hushed and then being surprised.

I guess my point is this. I wouldn't worry too much about negative posts. I read and considered all of it before my purchase, and still purchased the Kronos. And in spite of the RH3 issue I have, I am very happy with my decision.