Thinking about adding an arranger keyboard?

[steinkaf]

Ok you propeller heads chime in here. . . What does an "arranger" give you that a workstation doesn't. I checked out the Casio mentioned by the OP, as well as the Korg models. Does it make life easier?? Will all our dreams come true?? Details please! Are we missing something here??

In short...it adds "styles" of pre-recorded midi performances which generally act as "backing tracks" to your compositions. You can 'arrange' these styles and parts (intros, verses, choruses, fills, endings) in its sequencer to piece together a song, and then play over the resulting arrangement or add other original elements. Otherwise......its the same basic thing as a workstation. In fact, it IS a workstation, with the additional "arranger" mode (read: styles).

Whats cool.....some of the styles are well done, and they enable you to quickly arrange a song without starting from scratch. In other words, you have a guitar rhythm all prepared for you, and you can arrange the key and chord structure into a timeline so as to arrive at your composition. Then you can layer over the top of it with your original ideas.

Whats not so cool.....that same guitar rhythm is there for everyone to use, so its entirely un-original at its source.....but what you DO with it may have some originality. For structuring or scratching out songs, for quick jams, for live performance, for covers....its cool. For original artistic composition.....its cheating (or something close to it).

The styles are generally "fixed"...they are what they are, not very editable.....and therefore, not very "original" by nature. However, I have heard some very compelling and good music done with arranger styles....what was good about it was not the originality of the style...but what was done WITH the style....if that makes any sense.

+1

i love also my tyros 4. great instrument.

i think every instrument has it´s own plus and minus.

My tyros is a good instrument to play quickly some songs from yesterday at a Birthday-Party....
On the Fantom G i love the sequencer witch is much moor workable then they from Kronos.
But i would also never give away my Kronos with is a Fantastic Workstation and sounds great.

i think it´s a personal question what you like and not. if you prefer the Karma in Kronos ore the Styles in a Arranger to inspire you for a new song.
Always the result is the big thing.

[RonF]

Forgive my cryptic description of Arranger styles....wasn't trying to be comprehensive (thus why I began my post with "In short..."). Just describing the basics....and let me point out that those basics are in fact the case on many (if not most) arrangers except the higher end pro versions, and certainly is the case on the aforementioned Korg MicroArranger.

[Sina172]

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[Sina172]

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[RonF]

Wrong again:

Perhaps I am wrong about the MicroArranger....here are its features:
It says the styles are "completely editable". Not sure exactly what that means in detail, but I hope it is more advanced....in this case, I would be happy to be wrong.....


microARRANGER

PROFESSIONAL ARRANGER

Meet your new musical partner, the Korg microARRANGER.

This compact keyboard can quickly turn your ideas into songs, and also allows you to play your favorite songs with a full backing arrangement – instantly! The Korg microARRANGER turns the hit songs in your head into reality.

Features & Highlights:
Compact composing/performing keyboard that acts as your musical arranger

61-key Natural Touch mini keyboard; Velocity sensing

Built-in stereo speaker system

4 Stereo Effect Processors with 89 effect programs.

304 Styles; each is a complete and interactive musical environment for capturing your inspirations

Each Style includes Intros, Endings, Fills, and four Variations, all are completely editable

Styles follow your chords, voice leading, and tempo settings – you are always in control!

660 Preset Sound Programs and 128 User Programs provide excellent Korg sounds

32 Drumkits; 64 User Drumkits;

SD/SDHC card slot for data storage, importing Styles, sharing data with a computer DAW, etc.

[Thoraldus]

Here's the micro Arranger's 'full' spec ...

Keyboard:
61-key Natural Touch mini-keyboard (velocity sensitive)
System:
OPOS – Objective Portable Operating System: Multitasking System, load while playing

Feature; Upgradeable Operating System; SSD Solid State Disk
Tone generator:
HI synthesis (Hyper Integrated synthesis system)
Voice Polyphony:
62 voices, 62 oscillators. Filters with resonance
Waveform Memory:
32 MB PCM ROM (with Stereo Piano Sound)
Multi Timbre:
Internal = 40 tracks (2 x 16 Tracks in Sequencer, 4 Keyboard Tracks, 4 Pad Tracks)
Effects:
4 stereo digital Multi-Effect systems (89 effect types)
Programs/ Drum Kits:
662 Preset programs (including a Stereo Piano and 256 "GM level 2 programs")

33 drum kits (including 9 GM level 2 drum kits)

128 user programs + 64 user drum kits

Easy and Full Program Editing.
Styles:
Up to 304 Styles in Solid State Disk (256 preload +48 User)

All reconfigurable; up to 8 accompaniment tracks

All Style Performances are programmable

(Includes 4 Single Touch Settings for each style)
Style Record:
Styles can be created or edited to create new styles
Style elements:
Intro 1/2, Ending 1/2, Fill1/2, Count In/Break, 4 Variations

Each style can memorize Max. 36 Chord Variations
Performances:
160 real-time Performances + up to 304 Styles Performances

With 4 Single Touch Settings
Song Sequencer:
Play (Song Play)/ Record (Realtime / Step)/ Edit

16 Multi track, Max = 56,000 events (approximately), It corresponds to SMF (Format o and 1)
Backing Sequencer:
Play / Record (Realtime / Step)/ Edit
Song Play:
XDS* Cross fade Dual Sequencer player

2 Sequencers with separate Start/Stop, Pause,

'<<Rew>> FF' controls; Balance control

Lyrics are displayed on-screen

Jukebox Function; SMF Direct Player (format 0 and 1)
Realtime Track:
Keyboard Track (Upper 1/2/3, Lower),

PAD Track (4 truck)
Memory:
Internal Flash Memory = 8MB for Operating System, Musical resource.
Interface:
Display: Backlit custom LCD (Black-and-White)

Lyric Display (English Only)
Controls:
General Controls: Joystick, Dial

Programmable Control: 1 Slider

Real-time Controls: Master Volume, Acc/Seq Real-time Volume Balance

Switches: STS (Single Touch Setting). Style elements, Start/Stop, Transpose (b/#),
Bass Inversion, Memory, Manual Bass, Split Point, Groove Quantize,

Fade In/Out, TAP Tempo, Synchro, Start/Stop, Ensemble,

Chord Scanning (Lower / Upper), Keyboard Mode (Lower, Full Upper),

Tempo Lock, Octave (-/+), Multi PAD: 4 assignable pads + Stop button
Control Inputs:
Damper Pedal, Assignable pedal/switch x 1
Audio Outputs:
Left/mono, Right; Headphone (Mini Stereo Jack)
Audio Inputs:
Mini Stereo Jack
MIDI:
In, Out
Data Storage:
SD/SDHD cards; Multi Media Card (MMC)
Main Amplifier:
2x 5 Watt
Speakers:
10cm x 2 Single cone speakers (Open Air type)
Power Supply:
DC12V(Adapter)
Power Consumption:
9 Watts
Dimensions (w x D x H):
873 x 277 x 91 mm / 34.37" x 10.91" x 3.58" inches (microARRANGER w/o music stand)
Weight:
4.2 Kg / 9.26 lbs (microARRANGER w/o music stand)
Standard Accessories:
Quick Start Guide, Adaptor, Music Stand, Accessory Discs
Options:
EXP-2 Foot Controller, XVP-10 Exp/Volume Pedal,

PS-1 Footswitch, PS-3 Footswitch, DS-1H Damper Pedal

[Lefty7]

Over a year ago, I went shopping for a much-needed upgrade/replacement of my studio’s N264. A demo video of the Pa2X Pro arranger from the NAMM show (from a previous year) alerted me to the possibilities an arranger might offer, and I eventually got one. It’s made significant changes in the way I work, mainly in the time it takes to get new material up and running.

I was impressed with the out-of-the-box variety of styles, [read: instant band], and surprised at the sophistication of the numerous style programs - before I ever started any custom-tweaking. Being more accomplished as a guitar and bass player, I’m now intrigued with the idea of trying to drive the chord generation engine with chords originating from a MIDI guitar instead of only from the keyboard.

It’s my current “Driving This Arranger” project. (There’s more about this in the Pa2XPro section.) And the overview that follows certainly could apply to dedicated keyboard composers, (without the complication of the guitar).

Q. What is the point behind having an arranger in my studio?
A. To get original material up and running QUICKLY.

I’ve been doing this stuff for many years. I turned out a whole album where the rhythm track of each song was built up one painstaking, laborious instrument or sound at a time. It was time-consuming slogging grunt work that challenged one to keep focus on the original musical idea, and the intended finished product. With an arranger, said songwriter can conceivably have a rhythm track platform to start working on after one good ‘cue’ take – recorded to sequencer, with the whole band playing. It can drastically reduce production time, and take the drudgery out of the early stages of the recording process. And then you can start to have some real fun.

Later, my general modus operandi is to jettison some (if not all) of the synth-generated instrumentation, and replace those parts with ‘real’ parts played by me or some other flesh-and-blood musician(s), thus departing from the style program. Often, this is done one track at a time. (Or, if you like what the style band played, go with it.)

I write more material on the guitar than on the keyboard, and would like the chords of my somewhat bizarre playing style to be scanned and implemented by the arranger’s instant back-up band. If and when that is successful, another thing to get the hook would be my original ‘teacher’ guitar part. It was simply a cue to get the arranger’s internal band to follow along, playing the desired progression as the chord changes are scanned and recognized. I can already speculate that this cue part, essentially ‘delivering’ the guitar chords for scanning, will likely require its own specific playing technique. Nothing fancy. Timing with respect to measures will be critical, and this will all be compounded by the accuracy of the guitar’s MIDI converter (or guitar synth). But once the platform is recorded, it will be like a new trampoline just waiting to be jumped on. Then the REAL parts will be added, including the real guitar and bass parts – and now we’re talkin’ FUN STUFF!

So the arranger has been a great addition. How great I have yet to find out; I’ll be reporting my successes or failures with regard to the guitar drive effort. At the very least, I’ll have more questions to ask those more knowledgeable than I am.

At other times, when you’re not in production mode, you might just like to have a band to jam around with – maybe kick around some new ideas – and it will do that too. You don’t have to teach them the song, and you can make a key change any time you want. You don’t have to buy the drummer beer, or talk to the sax player’s wife on the phone when the session runs late.

Have some fun.

[RonF]

You don’t have to buy the drummer beer, or talk to the sax player’s wife on the phone when the session runs late.

Have some fun.

Back in '84, I bought myself too much beer, and ended up sleeping with the sax players wife. But that's another story!

[Lefty7]

Might be part of the SAME story.

I may have struck a familiar chord here.

I imagine you've made a few edits in style since then.

Save to global...

[Sina172]

...

[johnsmies]

"......And as soon as I find a gadget of some sort that'll allow me to use the DC Jack for some kind of a long lasting USB battery back that'll provide enough power for it, I'm ordering one immediately! Heck they're SO cheap, I might just get 8 of them!
Mr. Green....."

I think that will turn out to be a smart move.
Check out my website pages 7 and 8.

regards,
John Smies

http://pasounds.intropagina.nl/

and of course this, here on the forum:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=69334