Yamaha vs Korg

[Fransman]

Thanks for the advice Fransman. What is your opinion of the PA2X Pro?

Regards, Flip

You're welcome.
I've never played the PA2X, so I can't give you a good advice on that one.
Other in these forums can, for sure.

Ultimately, you always have to decide yourself.
Take your time to play/test the instrument inside-out.
In a good shop you're allowed to do so.

[DonM]

It so happens that a friend of mine has a fairly new Tyros 4. He heard my PA3X and asked if I would bring it over, set it up side by side with his T4, plug them both into the same Bose PA system and compare sounds, styles, etc.
So I did.
We played our keyboards and each others' keyboards for a couple of hours. My findings were that the T4 had some good new styles and the new drum kits do sound pretty good. As always, the OTS lead instruments settings were excellent. I loved the huge display and especially the display for text and lyrics.
I lifted both of them onto the stands. I know there isn't much difference in weight, but the size and shape of the T4 makes it awkward to move and requires a larger bag. It FELT heavier.
The keys felt like toys after playing the PA3X.
It often took going through two or more layers to access settings that are available with a button push on PA3X.
I could go on and on, but when the session was over, he offered to trade me even. I said no. He then offered to give me $500. difference to trade.
I said no.
DonM

[Lanco]

Hi Don

It's great to hear such a good and unbiased (as always from you) real life review. Your success with the PA3X that I have read about and heard your demos on SynthZone is one reason I feel it's worth me trying out the Korg.

The only thing that makes me wonder about the experience you had was that you used a Bose. It sounds like one Bose was used? If so, that would kind of scew the issue becaue we both know that the Yamaha sounds great through stereo, and although it has improved for mono, it would still not sound as good in mono enough that it would make it not easy to really judge then. So, I'm wondering if you used one or two Bose speakers in your test.

I take it you have the 61 note version?

I see by the dimensions that the 61 note version would probably fit in my old Kaces case that I used for my PSR2000. Also the Guardian CK-010-61, which weighs only 13 lbs would fit the 61 model.

http://www.guardiancases.com/ck010.html

[DonM]

We actually used it both ways, through one Bose Compact and also through two, using stereo.
Both instruments sounded better through two units, but the difference with the T4 was much more evident, particularly with the stereo patches, such as Grand Piano.
Hope this helps!
DonM

[flip]

Don, you mention the OTS feature of the Yamaha as a plus.
1. I usually find that I don't particulary like the OTS setting on my 900 and wind up setting them (voice 1,2,3 etc) myself. However, I must admit I usually do this with any style I import.

2. I never use the music finder so that no big deal for me.

3. The pianos voices in my 900 leave a lot to be desired.

Now my ? How does the Korg PA3X shape up vs the above? Thanks for all your input. Flip (PS I am leaning toward Korg)

[DonM]

The STS settings on the Korg are far easier to work with than the OTS on Yamaha. On Yamaha you can edit the OTS settings, but then must save the Style as a User style to keep them.
With the Korg, you can either save them directly to the factory style, or use the Songbook to save them with the style in a Songbook entry. That way you can have your own STS settings for each song you do, if you wish, even though you may use the same style for various songs.
I never used the Music finder on Yamaha either, but I find the Songbook on Korg invaluable, and I use it all the time.
Piano voices in the PA3x are excellent to my ears. Not sure what pianos they are sampled from, but Yamaha's are sampled from, guess what, Yamaha Grand.
Don

[flip]

Thanks Don...It sounds like I would like that STS feature. On your piano input...are you saying you prefer the Yamaha or did I get that wrong?

Thanks for you input., Flip Ps I also have this topic going on the PSR Forum I see you have been active there as well.

[Fransman]

Korg's Songbook is a lot more flexible and faster than Yamaha's Music Finder.
But, in the end, most of the things you can do with it are also possible with Yamaha.

The same goes for OTS and STS. They are quite similar, but Korg is (once you understand how it works) easier to setup.
Plus: Korg displays the 4 STS next to each other in the screen, with the corresponding buttons under them.
You can use the buttons or just touch the screen to activate a STS.
Yamaha shows the OTS info in a square: makes no sense to me, the OTS buttons are next to each other.

Style management is a lot easier with Yamaha, so I've experienced. A style is just a file.
In Korg this is more complicated: styles are always parts of sets. Combining sets is a hell of a job.

Korg doesn't have Registration banks like Yamaha. Performances can be used in a similar way,
but I think Registration banks are easier to set up. A song registration can be made in 8 parts that can be
kept together in one bank. Korg doesn't provide such a feature.

Korg has the better styles (to my ears). But, there are thousands and thousands Yamaha styles available,
most of them for free. Some quite good.

So both instruments/brands have their strenghts and weaknesses.
For live playing, I lean towards Korg.

[flip]

I just spent over an hour trying to locate a music store in New Jersey USA that stocked the PA3x.....no find. They tell me they do not stock big ticket items. I wonder how they get sold without trying them out. When you buy a car you try it first, I think, ????? Flip

[DonM]

I got mine from Musiciansbuy because they give you 45 days to return it at no charge. They also gave me a really good price, but I had to ask for it!
DonM

[flip]

Don is that Musician's Buy or Musician's Friend. And.....did you have any problems with the Style differances and lack or Registration ability per Fransman post. F;ip

[Dikikeys]

To be honest, you go and ask the SAME question over at a Yamaha forum, and overwhelmingly you will get exactly the opposite advice!

All I can do is suggest you try to play BOTH, and for at least a decent amount of time (a few hours minimum), preferably next to each other, but if not, whatever.

The choice of an arranger you can live with (hopefully a long time at these prices!) is such an individual thing, asking someone else is a bit sketchy. No-one knows what kind of backing density, live vs. 'polished' sound, style emphasis (do you do mostly Dixieland or techno? LOL) you really need, and so many other factors effect the answer.

My only warning to you would be that, on the whole, Yamaha tend to do the hard work for you. OOTB, they make simply turning it on and playing a piece of cake. Korg's offer a comprehensive set of tools to customize and create something utterly unique, utterly YOU... but at a price. The learning curve for its more advanced features is pretty steep. I consider myself reasonably technically proficient, but I found it quite a slog to come to grips with advanced editing, style editing, that sort of thing, and I have Kurzweil's and other complex keyboards. The file structure can be bewildering, the style editing counter-intuitive and frustrating, and if you have come from a nice easy to use Yamaha, you are going to have to be prepared to put in quite a bit of work.

Just a little caveat...

[miden]

To be honest, you go and ask the SAME question over at a Yamaha forum, and overwhelmingly you will get exactly the opposite advice!

All I can do is suggest you try to play BOTH, and for at least a decent amount of time (a few hours minimum), preferably next to each other, but if not, whatever.

The choice of an arranger you can live with (hopefully a long time at these prices!) is such an individual thing, asking someone else is a bit sketchy. No-one knows what kind of backing density, live vs. 'polished' sound, style emphasis (do you do mostly Dixieland or techno? LOL) you really need, and so many other factors effect the answer.

My only warning to you would be that, on the whole, Yamaha tend to do the hard work for you. OOTB, they make simply turning it on and playing a piece of cake. Korg's offer a comprehensive set of tools to customize and create something utterly unique, utterly YOU... but at a price. The learning curve for its more advanced features is pretty steep. I consider myself reasonably technically proficient, but I found it quite a slog to come to grips with advanced editing, style editing, that sort of thing, and I have Kurzweil's and other complex keyboards. The file structure can be bewildering, the style editing counter-intuitive and frustrating, and if you have come from a nice easy to use Yamaha, you are going to have to be prepared to put in quite a bit of work.

Just a little caveat...

Sorry bud, but I have to disagree with most of what you have written here about the operation of the Korg...it really is quite straightforward...as easy as the G70 was really...I found that (G70) pretty easy after a couple of days...it was the same with my original PA1xPro....After a couple of days, with the manual OPEN, read O.P.E.N. and pressing buttons and experimenting it all gels pretty quickly...

I think most of the problems people have in the transition from Yamaha to anything is they make lots of assumptions, do not read the manual apart from a "skim read", and then complain it is all too hard!!! Whereas the one thing I DO agree with you about is that Yamaha DO spoon feed a lot of the time..

Although to be fair to Korg, it too, is pretty damn easy to turn on and start playing immediately without a lot of forethought, and the touch screen is INFINITELY more intuitive that having to work out the sequence of button pushes required on the Yamaha with NO touch screen.

Dennis

[DonM]

Don is that Musician's Buy or Musician's Friend. And.....did you have any problems with the Style differances and lack or Registration ability per Fransman post. F;ip

MusiciansBuy.com

I really prefer the Songbook and Performances over the Yamaha Musicfinder and Registrations.
DonM

[flip]

I just found out something by reviewing the PA3X manual. The Video Out function which is standard on the upper end Yamaha KB is an option on the PA3X. Its called a Video Interface Board and cost $150 US. I ddo a lot of Karaoke so this is important to me. Does anyone out there have this option installed on their KB? And if you know...does it compare favorably to the Yamaha? Flip