Kaossilator Pro as a (primarily externally-sourced) looper?

[Glorious_T]

Hello all!

Lately, I've been getting into making music along the lines of AC/Panda Bear (for lack of a better comparison...). Give Sound of Animals Fighting's "My Horse Must Lose" a listen; this is pretty darn close, too.

I'm trying to decide which piece(s) of equipment might best suit my needs. I plan on running a guitar (possibly a bass also, on an a/b switch), a mic or two, and a synth/drum machine through a mixer and into a looper. Also, it's very important that I can produce and loop all sounds live/on the fly - it's a lot more fun to be able to just pick up and play...also, it feels a little more 'honest' when playing out

I've looked into getting a DM (possibly an sr16, or sr18 for the bass sounds) along with the Boomerang III looper. Down the line, I'll probably want to invest in a synth, too. So I'm looking at 550-700, plus 3-500 later on for a synth (microkorg, anyone?).

In the interest of consolidating equipment, how is the external audio record quality on the KoPro, specifically after several layers of recording? I understand this will also largely depend on how clean the source audio is. I'd run my guitar/mics into my mixer, and run mixer to KoPro via the RCA inputs. This way, I'd get my DM, my synth, and my looper for 3-400.

If the KoPro can hold a candle to the quality/flexibility of the alternative collection of equipment, this is a no-brainer. I'm looking for any feedback on these or other options I might have. (On a related note, how easy is the Electribe series to operate live along with other instruments?)

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks!

[MarcusCarab]

I work with a lot of lo-fi samples so I can't speak too much to quality (I've never had a problem with the kp3 - same hardware) but what I do recommend is looking more into the looping capabilities of the KPro and making sure they are robust enough for your needs. The KP3 has more sampling/looping functions, but it's an effects processor not a synth (well actually it has a few synths, but they are nothing special and hard to control). You might find you need something more like a Boss RC or the Boomerang -- both of which I think are a lot stronger in terms of pure sampling/looping, but obviously lack a lot of the other awesomeness that the KP*s bring to the table.

[roblabs]

Sounds to me like you'd be better off with something along the lines of a kp3 or roland sp404. With these devices you'll get to not only sample your output, but also add effects to the overall mix or individual instruments. The kp3 looks identical to the kp3 but is a dedicated sampler/effects unit. I don't know if you're manning all the guns yourself, but if you are, the kp3 would be a great choice because of the simplicity of its interface and touch screen functionality.

[Bowmoney]

roland sp404 should fit your needs well

[neotechtonics]

no live looping on the SP404 i'm afraid... unless I need to read the manual alot more thoroughly

It is a good tool for sampling and adding effects but it doesnt sample live and then play back the loop instantly like the Kaoss pad3 or Kaossilator pro do... and no overdubbing... and no sampling during playback.

If you're gonna be looping guitar while playing I'd say go for a looping pedal like the Boss RC-50. If you do decide to go for the kaossilator pro which does have capable looping and infinite overdubbing, you'll have to either have record on before you start playing your loop or splice an extra arm onto yourself somehow... or play barefoot with it on the floor to hit the sample bank with your big toe... or get really good at playing hammer-ons. There is an option of using something like a Behringer FCB-1010 MIDI pedal (something I'm looking to maybe get for myself) to trigger the sampling of the KPRO with your foot... but beware.. most midi pedals wont be able to control the sample banks on the KPRO as most send only CC.. and the KPRO/KP3 use midi note data to trigger the sample banks.. REALLY DAFT, thanks Korg!

if you can pick up a second hand RC-50 for a decent price I'd say that would be the best fit for a guitarist wanting to live loop.

The combination of the kaossilator pro and the FCB-1010 midi pedal would tick most of the boxes: live looping, infinite overdub, synthesizer, drum looping.... and foot control of sample recording for live looping with hands free for guitar/mic/playing a synth/whatever

EDIT: the electribes are a dream for live play, depending on how you set them up and how you use them, in a live setting they can be very hands on OR press play and sit back with a few minor tweaks here and there.
just don't fall into the trap of having more gear than you can control effectively live.

[MarcusCarab]

Top of the line I guess would be the Boss RC-300, which I have absolutely no need for and yet want, constantly, because goddamn: http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetai ... uctId=1182

[Bowmoney]

i prefer the 50 to the 300 in almost every way...

and yes, sorry about the recommendation, for live looping of guitar, an RC product will probably work best.

[MarcusCarab]

i prefer the 50 to the 300 in almost every way...

Can you elaborate? It always seemed to me that the new 30/300 were better than the 50/50xl (not sure if i have all those names right) but they are also damn expensive - what are the pros on the older ones? I'd love it if they turned out to be superior :)

[Bowmoney]

well, to each his own, i just find that the work flow on the rc 50 is more intuitive...anbd most folks don't need 3 stereo loops as a lot of sources like guitar and drums, etc are coming from mono sources...i would say they are comperable, just different, and i happen to prefer the rc 50...my friend has an rc 300 and it just seems to have more quirks to it, but i could be wrong

[Glorious_T]

Thanks for the input!

I've been looking at the RC300 as well. 3 simultaneous loops would be a beautiful thing. I had looked at the Stereo JamMan as well, but you can't play separate loops simultaneously...

The KoPro and KP3 offer 4 banks...but the hands-on part is a worry...

[neotechtonics]

do have a look at the combination of the Behringer FCB-1010 MIDI pedal with the Kaossilator Pro tho. Cos then you will have foot control of 4 loop banks... with infinite overdub for layering on any of them along with being able to finger synth and drum stuff into loops when not playing guitar.

I'm not sure what the difference in price would be for KPRO + FCB-1010 versus the RC300 or RC50.

[mojofunk]

If midi sync between your gizmos is important to you you may wish to investigate the Electro Harmonix 2880. The RC300 has midi too, but the previous incarnation was massively flawed in its implementation, I'd read what others experiences have been before relying on it. The gold standard for good simple effective midi sync in a looper is still the Lexicon Jam Man from the early 1990's, and some very pricey items like the Echoplex and Looperlative. If you really want to go nuts Ableton Live smokes all of the above!

[zululord]

Hey Glorious_T,

are you aware that the KPro only allows for a 16 beat loop at most?

I agree with mojofunk; the EH 2880 looks awesome.

[Glorious_T]

The 16-beat loops in the KPro (and same for the KP3?) should be more than adequate, especially if there are 4 of them.

I've been checking out the 2880 as well. I really wish I wouldn't have to spend another 100+ to get the footswitch, though. It's been a toss-up between the 2880, RC300, and RangIII; I've been leaning towards these over the Kaoss pads (although, after playing around with one, all those effects would be a lot of fun to have). Midi sync would make running my setup a lot simpler, which makes the 2880 attractive.

The only catch for going with one of the pedals is that I'll be stuck with a used SR16 for percussion for the time being...

[Bowmoney]

keep in mind that below 108.5 bpm, you get 8 beats only