Would you pay for an OS upgrade?

Niblit · Post by **Niblit** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:36 pm

runningman67 wrote:You are a customer. You are allowed to have a fair and honest view. Your Korg heart is in the right place
I went from no to yes but I would want the canvas to be the same, just a few more colours on the easel.

Oh my Korg heart is definitely in the right place: I would recommend Korg to anyone and I am proud to own a Kronos. Problem is that I am not a musician, I can't read or wright music and can only compose tunes in small chunks. Having the ability to arrange those chunks visually, would make my life so much easier.

I can't be the only budding composer with these hang-ups. There must be thousands of people like me. Maybe I'm not "all there" (one brick short) but one day, I WILL produce a musical composition worthy of honest praise, and that will be the day I finally smile and tick that box

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:40 pm

Wow. Love your honesty and I'm hearing you, and I respect your perspective on this topic. What can I say.......I hope you get the sequencer you deserve.
We all approach our music in different ways. The most important thing is that we all enjoy it .

dcer10 · Post by **dcer10** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:22 am

No I would not think that allowing customers to pay for os updates would be something korg should/would do because this could put some of the control for feature requests into the hands of us users (I know that might sound odd to some people as we pay for the instrument, but hear me out).

For example, the idea in this thread while being interesting would suit a limited subset of the users (pc/mac sequencer or alternate kronos sequencer). Many others would like to continue to use their workstation independently of the computer. As an example, if this user paid towards the os feature set the os update would suit them rather than sticking with korgs product vision, which while not suiting everyone every time, it is a balanced view of the instrument and is what has provided the initial appeal for people to want to buy it. PS personally I'd love to see a better sequencer on the kronos, this is just an example.

Korg are much better and more experienced with their product development that we are as individuals, so it's best to submit ideas to them that they can consider as they wish during the normal product development life cycle.

Having some idea's for improvement myself, my approach is that if you can't get what you want, build it. There are many DIY options out there like mios and others, contribute to the development in these communities and build projects that bridge the gap for yourself rather than wishing for a company like korg to do it for you.

Niblit · Post by **Niblit** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:59 am

dcer10 wrote:No I would not think that allowing customers to pay for os updates would be something korg should/would do because this could put some of the control for feature requests into the hands of us users (I know that might sound odd to some people as we pay for the instrument, but hear me out).

For example, the idea in this thread while being interesting would suit a limited subset of the users (pc/mac sequencer or alternate kronos sequencer). Many others would like to continue to use their workstation independently of the computer. As an example, if this user paid towards the os feature set the os update would suit them rather than sticking with korgs product vision, which while not suiting everyone every time, it is a balanced view of the instrument and is what has provided the initial appeal for people to want to buy it. PS personally I'd love to see a better sequencer on the kronos, this is just an example.

Korg are much better and more experienced with their product development that we are as individuals, so it's best to submit ideas to them that they can consider as they wish during the normal product development life cycle.

Having some idea's for improvement myself, my approach is that if you can't get what you want, build it. There are many DIY options out there like mios and others, contribute to the development in these communities and build projects that bridge the gap for yourself rather than wishing for a company like korg to do it for you.

Thanks for your in depth reply.
I think my second option (read the second post in this poll) would be the best way to go as I assume it would only require minor changes to the OS. The rest of it would act just like the Kronos Editor software except this one would mirror the sequencer and nothing else.

A few months ago many forum users were crying out at Korg to give us a decent sequencer upgrade. Assuming the OS rewrite option is just too time consuming and expensive, I would have thought this idea would get a few heads nodding.

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:27 am

I am begining to hate this discussions. Yes, I would pay money to Korg for a better Seq in the Kronos because the M3 one I now posses is much better but the screen is to small.
It's just utter lazzyness from Korgs side to not have merged the M3 and Oasys lines f code because it's so much easier for them do not do it.
It's just some form of bad behaviour to not do this rather trivial thing. And I doubt it would cost that much. Developers are much cheaper then 100,- today. And look what the did with the Krome. They added Kronos features and additional Input dialogs to the M3 code. They cannot claim it's to costly to do that for the Kronos. At least I want to be able to use the enter button while I use the value slider. Why do I always have to hit the tiny microscopic boxs on the screen to confirm bus/midi channel/LFO/you name it changes?

They did not think their design choices thru. The screen is nice but not movable and to small. They removed the pads and went for touchscreen pads without velocity sensitivity. That was just plain silly. And without external lighting you cannot see a damn thing and decide which button is wich on stage. They made their best achine soundwise into a cripple willingly jst to have the price in the same range with Yamaha. Another case of marketing failure. Crippling of a great product because of price considerations.
A very good product will always find a market.

The same is true of Rolands plastic toys. Great sound, terribble design and keys.

motic · Post by **motic** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:08 pm

Just like any other manufacturer they stuffed some improvements for the Oasys in the Kronos and improvements for the Kronos in the Krome and they wil go further down that path (continuing pissing off existing Korg owners) expecting people continue buying, 'where' it's all about... money!
They'll never give you the ultimate synth 'cause that would be the last one you buy and... that's not what they want!
Was glad they brought out the M3 2.04 update and i keep that one but already there i saw the quality decay, so, the K was the last one for me, as replacement for the most wanted Oasys which was too expensive, discontinued and i don't like 2nd hands!
I don't say the Kronos is bad, it has huge possibilities even with the missing plusses and forgotten minuses, but expecting much more for it would be a waste of my time in my opinion.
The willingness to keep the consumer happy doesn't shine anymore... sold is sold, that money is cashed... who's next?!... well not me!

Corgy · Post by **Corgy** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:27 pm

Yes, I would pay - if the upgrade was worth the cost.

For me the Kronos is - technically spoken - a "computer" and with computers you have got the advantage to improve the entire system by software updates or upgrades. I would prefer to upgrade my keyboard - be it hardware or software - rather than to purchase a next generation product.

If the Kronos would be maintained by Korg like the Virus TI by Access I would be more than happy

Corgy · Post by **Corgy** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:39 pm

motic wrote:Just like any other manufacturer they stuffed some improvements for the Oasys in the Kronos and improvements for the Kronos in the Krome and they wil go further down that path (continuing pissing off existing Korg owners) expecting people continue buying, 'where' it's all about... money!
...
The willingness to keep the consumer happy doesn't shine anymore... sold is sold, that money is cashed... who's next?!... well not me!

It may come to this but it would be not the best of future oriented strategies, I would say. Korg should be aware and watch the market of software-only synths, their quality and their cost.

The advantage of Kronos is the homogenious combination of synths, sampler, sequencer, interfaces, keyboard etc. and a reliable system for live performance.

IMHO the PC/MAC systems will close that cap sooner or later and than only the price will rule, if Korg missed to provide good treatment to a loyal user community.

motic · Post by **motic** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Corgy wrote: The advantage of Kronos is the homogenious combination of synths, sampler, sequencer, interfaces, keyboard etc. and a reliable system for live performance.

IMHO the PC/MAC systems will close that cap sooner or later and than only the price will rule, if Korg missed to provide good treatment to a loyal user community.

I'm with you except on the 'reliable for live performance' thing... not speaking out own experience but reading about the tendency to reset in the middle of a song i don't think that's so true as the rest is, as i already said and being the sequencer good (?) enough for me (hobby work) is apparently not good enough for more professionals guys.
IMHO it is not smart to let the consumer hang on quality and manufacture too, let properly test the units and not wait if a consumer has problems and eventually send it back only to keep the costs as low as possible!
I tell you, if i had to send it back (and sometimes twice or 3 times, i read...)... no way i would keep it, as good as it may sound or look!
But everybody is entitled to have his own opinion, so... and i'll be further on the side 'cause it is getting a little off the original topic.

Ojustaboo · Post by **Ojustaboo** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:46 pm

I also think paying for an upgrade would set a bad precedent, it would become a money making route for future products, cripple them on release and charge to unlock.

ChrisP · Post by **ChrisP** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:02 pm

I wouldn't want to pay. For the upgrade cost, I would rather purchase an entry level DAW.

https://soundcloud.com/jesuslovesyou-1/parisutham

The entire backing track was done on Kronos sequencer and after crossing over the initial learning curve, the sequencer is not as bad as it has been discussed. We cannot compare with a DAW interface (apple to oranges!), but you can get things done with the sequencer if we are patient and willing to learn. It is difficult and painful without a piano roll view, but i've learned to just re-record a phrase instead of doing minute change (painful).

Kronos sequencer is far more usable than what we would think by reading through many posts. One simple feature which I always love is the way the keypad is organized (location of the enter key), it is certainly designed with usability in mind. Helps a lot!

Corgy · Post by **Corgy** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:18 pm

ChrisP wrote: Kronos sequencer is far more usable than what we would think by reading through many posts. One simple feature which I always love is the way the keypad is organized (location of the enter key), it is certainly designed with usability in mind. Helps a lot!

I agree to this. For me the Kronos sequencer is an excellent tool to take a recording directly when the idea strikes. No need for a DAW to be started first. I like most that any combi or program can be copied directly to a ready to start recording sequencer mode with a simple key-combi.

But I would do no real multi-track arrangements with it. This job is much more convenient done in my DAW.

Oboemd · Post by **Oboemd** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:36 pm

The wonderful thing about having a choice is simply those who wanted to ,could purchase, those who did not want it would not. much the same as some will purchase software upgrade sounds, or hardware; larger drives.

Obviously OS upgrades to improve general functionality or correct bugs, most people would expect to be free. I am speaking of a massively improved seq that would be equivalent to the better DAWs

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:30 pm

I am wondering what this paid for OS upgrade would look like and what owners would actually pay for it.

anybody care to post what is the max they would pay for a uber upgrade ?

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:53 pm

GregC wrote:I am wondering what this paid for OS upgrade would look like and what owners would actually pay for it.
anybody care to post what is the max they would pay for a uber upgrade ?

I would pay 15,- € on an upgrade that gives me the same features as the M3/Krome sequencer + life velocity bars and touch drag sliders.
I paid 26,-€ for Mainstage 2 recently and think this price is fair. The M3 Xpanded upgrade was free of charge so I don´t think my price suggestion is unreasonable.

The free streaming user samples update was mostly in the self interest of Korg, because the RAM was to small to sell us all their nice shiny sample libraries. (Or am I wrong on that?)

I would pay 150,- € for an additive sound engine that´s Kawai K5000 compatible. It would need of course an editor that is capable of touch and drag for the spectral lines or it would be too complicated to create sounds.
There are already enough subtrative engines inside the Kronos. An additive Engine would complete the spectrum of possibilities.