Kronos vs. Roland Fantom Help me decide

[jimknopf]

apex, I have been using the Fantom G a lot, and constantly ran into silly OS dead ends while doing so. The final conflict (about naming that and saying goodbye) is not my main point at all, concerning my Fantom G judgement. You can't even get project content over to other projects on the G in any well working way, something I need all the time. My list of other bad Fantom usability issues is very, very long.

No keyboard in the world is anything cultish to me, and the only two instruments I have had an emotional relation to, are my Rhodes Mk I, and the Minimoog Model D which I don't have any more. The Kronos just happens to be the by far most useful workstation/synth I have used so far. Not more and not less. No big feeling opera, just happy music making.

The master keyboard functionality on the Fantom G was fine concerning the separate output channels. But even that is heavily halfbaked like anything else in this board. I had a lot of problems switching between the internal/external and combinated pages, while getting my controller action on the fantom G right with a patch change. Don't remember the details, but this was discussed at length and could only be met by not really convincing workarounds.

I get by MUCH better with the Kronos concept, where I can use only 16 parts, but with full, well working control and good overview. Add that I belong to those who never use more than a few parts at the same time live, and while recording prefers the "less is more" arrangements with air to breathe for instruments and frequency ranges. In one word: the Fantom G offers an amount of parts, which are never, ever used by me, for reasons of sonic clarity and musical taste.

I sharp contrast to the G the kronos is highly inspiring for me, and really doing the things I want and need most, in a very convenient way.

[JuneauUnderground]

My solution is the Kronos and pick up Fantom XR (rack version). Best of both worlds, plus you can add a boat load of SRX expansion boards to the XR. Midi them togeather? Very cool, very usefull!,

[Shakil]

Jim,

That's it! I am getting a Kronos-m ... When it's available. I love my m3-m.

[mathieumaes]

My solution is the Kronos and pick up Fantom XR (rack version). Best of both worlds, plus you can add a boat load of SRX expansion boards to the XR. Midi them togeather? Very cool, very usefull!,

I actually had a Fantom XR, and I replaced it with my Kronos. I connected my M-Audio keyboard with a USB cable - it is now USB powered

I didn't have any trouble finding replacement sounds for the things I did with my Roland... (Strings, pads, brass, ...)

EDIT: I still have that Fantom XR for sale. Contact me for a fair price

[sani]

But Jim.... You have personal differences with the Fantom. And believe the Kronos is God with black and white keys.....

You're kinda partial don't you think?

What about external part control?....that's tons better on Fantom g than Kronos right?... 16 extra parts....that's crazy.

The Fantom G is the only workstation and/or keyboard that I know, which is still the current product being sold, while optional components are already obsolete. And I mean the ARX cards which are not produced any more and you can only get them used now or from stores who still have some of them available, clearing their stocks. That speaks volumes! And while the Fantom G has an editor, it doesn't work with the last two Cubase versions because Roland is not eager to adapt to the current VST standard.

The external part control sounds great on paper with its 16 parts. Unfortunately one of the most basic and useful function is not there. You can't transpose the parts on the Fantom. You have to edit every single external part on the external device to hear the sound in its desired octave position. If you play an external part on the most right or left position on the keybed from a FG8, you can imagine than no external part will sound right (with the exception of a bass patch used for the most left part).
So, generally, the problem with the Fantom G is not what is there, but how it's implemented.

[BillW]

Unfortunately one of the most basic and useful function is not there. You can't transpose the parts on the Fantom. You have to edit every single external part on the external device to hear the sound in its desired octave position.

Technically, the Fantom can do this, but you have to use Roland's editor...this capability was left out of the Fantom's GUI.

[Vlad_77]

Cobray already has made his choice and it's a good one. Having said that, I STILL own and use a Fantom X8 quite regularly. I do not care if it IS discontinued. It's a great board. No, in terms of features and power, NONE of the Fantoms can touch a Kronos but it is important to remember that Kronos is based upon an 8000 USD workstation called OASYS and that instrument was light years ahead of other workstations and still is - Kronos not included obviously.

Somebody mentioned the sounds of the X being so "90s." I do not agree. Perhaps the stock sounds hearken to an earlier era but:

1. Many of those sounds are iconic
2. Synths/workstations are MADE to be programmed.

Go on FleaBay and purchase an original Jupiter 8 for 5 large. Guess what? You will find what SOME would consider outdated sounds. The same holds true for all of the discontinued synths like Prophet 5, Matrix 12, etc. But what you can CREATE soundwise with a synth is the real acid test.

The only comment I would make to the OP was that he/she should realize - and this is a GOOD thing - is that Kronos will require a LOT more study than a Fantom X or G. It's a good thing she/he does have a lot of time to explore

Ahimsa,
Vlad

[robdevine69]

Well, for me I have both the Fantom G6 and the Kronos and I can't live without either of them. I sold my Fantom G6 for about a month and realized how much I missed the Amazing sequencer, so I re bought it. To me it is by far the very best sequencer that has ever been put in a workstation, miles above all of the competition. Now as far as sounds go Kronos all of the way for sound design it is unbeatable. If only they could mix the sequencer of the Fantom G with the Kronos and Virus TI sound design features then add in the sampling features of the MPC 4000 we would have the perfect workstation albeit it would probably cost around $10,000 but HELL, I'd buy it. My 2 Cents

[keyboardnut]

I have both boards and the Kronos wins hands down Roland are going to need a quantum shift to keep up!The bar has been lifted over to you roland.Lets see what Namm 2014 brings?

[GregC]

I have both boards and the Kronos wins hands down Roland are going to need a quantum shift to keep up!The bar has been lifted over to you roland.Lets see what Namm 2014 brings?

neither Roland or Yamaha has done a new workstation for a few years. They may have abandoned the new model workstation marketplace.

At best, they are playing wait and see while Kronos dominates.

[Saxifraga]

Unfortunately one of the most basic and useful function is not there. You can't transpose the parts on the Fantom. You have to edit every single external part on the external device to hear the sound in its desired octave position.

Technically, the Fantom can do this, but you have to use Roland's editor...this capability was left out of the Fantom's GUI.

If you are in the 'Studio Play' mode and did select the 'External' sub screen you have the option to select any of the 16 MIDI channels and have them transposed by using the TRANSPOSE button to your left. Just press -OCT or +OCT multiple times. The workflow of the Fantom is just different than the Kronos or M3 'workflow'. With the Fantom you record a Phrase now and store this transposed phrase. The phrase includes now all the transposed notes and the information on wich channel to be played. You can place it anywhere on a MIDI track and it will sound as you played it.

Just download the Fantom handbook to your iPad or M$-pad or whatever pad and search the pdf.

btw. I think Kronos and Fantom are not that much comparable. The Fantom fits much better into my now Mac centered world and was much cheaper than getting a Kronos 61. Of course it lacks now updates by Roland and thus gets needlessly outdated. But it works very well with vCollection 3 Synths played via USB-MIDI out and USB-Audio back in. I also like the concept of roland workstations to work with both hands simultaneously. I never have to switch hands or sides and can use a mouse in a useful way but dont need it most of the time.

For the difference in price I could buy NI Komplete or an Integra 7 with an additional 400 Euro added. I am really happy with my Fantom G6 + ARX-01 and 02. If I had a Kronos 61 added I would be even happier.

I would go for the Kronos only if it's the 61 version and only as a synth not a workstation.

[Saxifraga]

BTW: All three ARX expansions are sold now for 99£ at the Roland Uk online store.

Is there anyone in england, wales or scottland willing to buy one ARX-03 for me online? Being a german makes it impossible for me to get it here and the price for ARX-03 is still 350,- Euro in german stores.
I could pay via PayPal or any other means necessary.
beg beg

[Stratario]

You may have to get rid of the Fantom and get a Kronos that comes with free expansions.. he he he .. Just kidding .. But seriously, I thought you may have better luck asking for help on the purchase of the expansion on Roland Clan forums.

Cheers,


Amoo Farrokh
Canada

[jimknopf]

I had bought the ARX-03 and sold it while still owning a Fantom G.
It had one or two nice saxes and trumpets, but not one single crisp brass section sound suited for R&B, funk etc. The brass section sounds rather were like old fashioned marching band brass.

Some sn brass sounds in the jP 80 or the Integra are definitely better, so ARX-03 is just as much a step back to a less good sounding past as the whole Fantom is, compared to the Kronos.

I can get better sounding brass within ten minutes, by resampling well done software sounds into the Kronos.

[dfahrner]

Jim,

That's it! I am getting a Kronos-m ... When it's available. I love my m3-m.

It may be a long, long wait - people have been asking for a module version ever since the KRONOS was released several years ago...better get one with a keyboard in the meantime...

df