Mackie Control Protocol problem with nanokontrol2

Oval · Post by **Oval** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:30 am

Short Version:
1. Is there any way I can prevent Mackie Control protocol from sending “note on” and other midi messages apart from the “control” (transport/faders/pan pots etc.) ones when I use it with my Nanokontrol2 in Cubase 5? Disabling “Include in All MIDI Inputs” checkbox for Nanokontrol2 can’t be a valid, handy option (see detailed version). Some workaround? A custom xml maybe?
2. Going the add nanokontrol2 as a “generic remote control” route it seems that Cubase is unable to send midi data to the nanokontrol2 which results in wrong led positions. Am I doing something wrong? Also, how can I make it so when I press the “stop” button in the nanokontrol2 the “play” button led goes off (as it happens in the Mackie mode/ as it should be).

Detailed Version:
So, I am using the Mackie Control protocol with my Korg’s Nanokontrol 2 in Cubase 5 in order to control the transport buttons and mixer as it is officially suggested.
Everything works great except the fact that when in “Mackie mode”, apart from the control messages sent when I press a transport button, I also get “note on” and other controller messages resulting in notes getting played or vst synths getting detuned If a midi track is selected which causes a highly undesirable mess.

I guess this is the way the Mackie Control protocol works in general? This makes no sense but it seems this is the case since Nanokontrol2 manual advices to clear the “Include in All MIDI Inputs” check box for Nanokontrol2 within Cubase options.
This solves the issue but as you can imagine it creates another:
When you change into nanokontrol’s “midi cc” mode in order to control a plugin you have to either enable “include in all midi inputs” again or change the midi input for the midi track in question to nanokontrol exclusively. But that means it will not be able to pick notes from my midi keyboard then. And to make things worse, it means that after you’re done and you want to turn into “daw/Mackie mode” again you have to change settings AGAIN.
Naturally, doing that every 2 mins can’t be an option so there must be an alternative I am missing. I mean, how other people who work with nanokontrol2/other controllers using Mackie control protocol cope with this?

All I can think of as possible solutions are:
1. A modified Mackie Control xml which somehow keeps the control messages but excludes the others (“note on” etc.). I don’t know if this is even possible.
2. A nanokontrol2 template for Cubase that acts like the Mackie Control minus its issues. I see custom scripts for other DAWs which actually improve nano’s functionality but none for Cubase so if anyone has something, please do share.
3. Ditching Mackie Control completely and add nanokontrol2 as a “generic remote control” which simply doesn’t work as good as the Mackie Control and seems to have a problem of its own. It then seems that Cubase loses the ability to send midi messages back to nanokontrol2 which is probably why changes in solo/mute and transport buttons in Cubase don’t reflect into those in the nanokontrol2 leds. Also the “play” button led stays on even after the “stop” button gets pressed which is problematic. Both issues don’t occur while in Mackie mode, maybe some other nanokontrol user can shed some light on this one. Thanks a lot!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:49 pm

The problem is that the messages you don't want when in mackie control mode, and the messages you do want when not in that mode, are the same thing.

Filtering one in one situation is going to make it unusable in the other.

It's not strictly a fault with any one product, it's just the interaction of the various things involved. I guess switching the modes would be a somewhat unintended use case. The mackie control mode is nice to have but it only really works if that is all you are using. Cubase is expecting that the device you are connecting is either a mackie compatible control surface, or it's not. Switching between the two is rather unusual.

Having said that, it might work to try setting up the stuff you do want on a certain channel. Then setting the stuff you want to work with to respond to the same channel, or otherwise filter messages so you only get that one channel of all the controls that you wanted.
This assumes that the standard mackie compatible template is only using one channel.

Unfortunately I don't have Cubase any more or I would be tempted to try this too.

Oval · Post by **Oval** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:24 pm

Thanks a lot for your reply X-Trade.

You know, this has been driving me crazy. I keep asking in various forums and noone has an idea to the point of making me think that I am either missing something completely obvious or just asking for something too demanding/crazy.

All I am asking is to be able to work in a project, taking advantage of the nano's transport/marker/cycle buttons (and on a lesser note, the mixer faders) and when I encounter a situation where I want to control a vst instrument/plugin with midi cc, be able to swiftly turn into a mode where I could do that only to efficiently return to the original state (transport) and so on... I can send different settings for each occasion on the fly using the KorgEditor (set up and enable files with cubase/mackie mode and then some midi cc sets) so why not? That's all, am I really asking too much? I mean, how does everyone else use their nanokontrol then? Just as a transport button deck? Now, maybe THE APPROACH I am taking (filtering out specific Mackie action) is unorthodox/impossible but now that you know what my task is could you or anyone else help?

Having said that, it might work to try setting up the stuff you do want on a certain channel. Then setting the stuff you want to work with to respond to the same channel, or otherwise filter messages so you only get that one channel of all the controls that you wanted.
This assumes that the standard mackie compatible template is only using one channel.

I get the feeling filtering is the way to go, yeah. I thought setting Nanokontrol2 “Global MIDI channel” on KontrolEditor while in Cubase mode in let’s say “16” then going to preferences-MIDI-Midi Filter in Cubase then click channel 16 square (making it blue ie. disabling channel 16 ) would do the trick and would be the equivalent of like, untick the “Include in All MIDI Inputs” check box for Nanokontrol2 BUT ONLY for channel 16 thus block any incoming midi traffic but the transport/mixer control messages but it didn’t work. It seems Nanokontrol2 doesn’t use Channel 16 despite setting it to do so. Unless I am doing something wrong? Now, If I filter out channel 1 for some reason I get what I intended: Transport/Mixer Mackie action without the musical and other messages. But I don't get ANY other midi action (not from my midi keyboard either) and that doesn't change no matter if I set the midi channel in the given track into anything else other than 1 ie. I set it to channel 5 and I still get no midi traffic at all. I just don't get it.

By the way, do you have any idea how could I overcome the led problem in the "solution" #3. of my original post?
Nanokontrol2 supports midi feedback as far as I know so the leds should work as intended. I guess it is a setting I am missing.
Maybe if I overcome this issue and add the nanokontrol2 as an 100% functioning "generic remote control" is the closest I can get to my intended workflow?

Oval · Post by **Oval** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:12 pm

Updating my own thread by saying that if anyone, ever, has similar needs/problems with nanoKONTROL2 (or simply wants to go deeper when it comes to extending the abilities of any midi controller in general) the solution is an application called Bome’s Midi Translator Pro.
I am sure I am not the first one who brings this up in here, but this thing is simply amazing once you get the hang of it...
http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator/overview