kronos crashed and burned on stage last night

[clicheuk]

This is way off subject now, I get the feeling that some people are offended because a fault has occurred and dared to be mentioned.
Bottom line is not only do I love my kronos I became dependant on its amazing sounds and features so when it crashed and wouldn't restart I was pretty taken back, especially when you consider how long it takes to boot. Although I havent got another kronos or intead to get a second, Ido have a back up.
I could write analogies all day long, but if you dont get it or have got more money than most in the real world there seems little point.
I get my kronos back tomorrow and hopefully ill have years of use without issue.

[BobTheDog]

When I used to play live I had a backup for every piece of equipment I used.

For my current work I have a complete backup system as well.

Makes sense to me.

p.s. I'm not trying to say that it is ok that the Kronos may go bang, I am just saying there is always a possibility that something will go wrong.

[AntonySharmman]

Thought I'd update you guys on the progress korg have made since having it on their "bench" for the past week.
there are no signs of a surge realated problem but instead, poor instalation of a "ribbon".
The said ribbon was rubbing on a board and eventually exposed, shorted and burnt .

Service issue announcement can be heard totally inaccurate , especially if keyboard is under guarantee !!!
Ribbon controller is flowed by very weak current to cause a short circuit , not to mention a burning smell phenomenon .
I can easily short circuit any terminal cable of ribbon with chassis and the only action is to reverse ribbon control state !
The only reasonable malfunction could be the "weak" third Chinese manufacturer Enhance ENO-1612 120W switching mode power
supply , an issue I had some time ago with my Kronos , part that was ordered directly from China and replaced in my lab !

Note that my Kronos has been modified with external SSD port of primary main board Sata port in case of internal SSD failure
that also happened to me recently with total electrical burn in of an expensive OCZ SSD !
When the secondary external clone SSD is connected , system overrides internal SSD and boots in 2 minutes (this is my plan B)

As last , realize that Kronos hardware is a normal PC with all consequences that this can mean , DOS reliable age is over and a back up
stage plan is inevitable from now on (UMHO) !

[phil55]

To err is human, to completely screw up is a computer.

The 'ribbon issue' is the latest in a growing list of Kronos bugs.

The simplest solution is to use your 'back up' kit for live and only use Kronos live when you absolutely need to.

Ironic? maybe.

[dfahrner]

The 'ribbon issue' is the latest in a growing list of Kronos bugs.

The simplest solution is to use your 'back up' kit for live and only use Kronos live when you absolutely need to.

If one person (out of how many owners?) has a problem with something on the KRONOS, it shouldn't be added to the "bug list"; until there are at least a few reports, there is no "ribbon issue"...the list is getting shorter, anyway: remember all the posts about keyboard problems? They seem to have stopped...haven't heard any fan noise complaints recently, either, maybe all the people with sensitive ears (or Korg) replaced the fan...

I've been using a K61 and a K73 for live gigs for almost two years now, and have never had a problem (or carried a backup)...except when the "chick singer" backed into my music stand and it hit the KRONOS power switch...

df

[phil55]

The 'ribbon issue' is the latest in a growing list of Kronos bugs.

The simplest solution is to use your 'back up' kit for live and only use Kronos live when you absolutely need to.

If one person (out of how many owners?) has a problem with something on the KRONOS, it shouldn't be added to the "bug list"; until there are at least a few reports, there is no "ribbon issue"...the list is getting shorter, anyway: remember all the posts about keyboard problems? They seem to have stopped...haven't heard any fan noise complaints recently, either, maybe all the people with sensitive ears (or Korg) replaced the fan...

I've been using a K61 and a K73 for live gigs for almost two years now, and have never had a problem (or carried a backup)...except when the "chick singer" backed into my music stand and it hit the KRONOS power switch...

df

The ribbon issue on this thread, is not the first time I have heard of a ribbon issue on a Kronos, that's why I mentioned it.

[SanderXpander]

I never heard of a ribbon issue and I'm on here daily. Not that that means much, same as your comment.

I have been using my Kronos live professionally as my only board for two years. I had one issue where a RAM stick had gotten loose, which was easily fixed although heart-stopping when it happened. Even if that single incident makes it less reliable than e.g. a Motif, it is still a far, far more capable and enjoyable board to play.

My Nord Stage also froze on me once by the way, and I never found out why. I found that much scarier.

[GregC]

The 'ribbon issue' is the latest in a growing list of Kronos bugs.

The simplest solution is to use your 'back up' kit for live and only use Kronos live when you absolutely need to.

If one person (out of how many owners?) has a problem with something on the KRONOS, it shouldn't be added to the "bug list"; until there are at least a few reports, there is no "ribbon issue"...the list is getting shorter, anyway: remember all the posts about keyboard problems? They seem to have stopped...haven't heard any fan noise complaints recently, either, maybe all the people with sensitive ears (or Korg) replaced the fan...

I've been using a K61 and a K73 for live gigs for almost two years now, and have never had a problem (or carried a backup)...except when the "chick singer" backed into my music stand and it hit the KRONOS power switch...

df

yeah, that makes good sense. There are possibly 8,000 - 10,000 Kronos manufactured and eventually sold. A lot of units are sold in the US, I suspect. and it will be 3 years this July/August since the intro.

the ribbon issue is new to me. Always good to know about a surprise problem but if it was epidemic, we would have read tons about it.

So far, it seems like some kind of random flaw in assembly or maybe its a glitch part. I will say it again, nothing is perfect. These parts are suppose to be made within specs but that will not prevent a random problem from flaring up.

[John Hendry]

sorry to hear your issues I'd have to agree it sounds bad, most likely power issues and frankly i know as aer tech the madness that goes on in ht empower sometimes that can do some major issues. I won't use my kronos out on a gig with a decent quality power conditioner, surge protector sine wave based UPS. I run all my gear through one mine has enough grunt to protect and keep my gear running for 50 minutes and that includes my Yamaha powered monitor . Alls it takes is someone to switch something out the back like a heat on or off and it can send a surge and a spike through the line and the Kronos is a computer and they tend to be way more sensitive than a guitar amp or the like. If you can get someone to look at it and write up something for insurance and hopefully they will cover it for a surge. Ive written up quite a few for my computer clients over the years where stuff has got fried.

cheers for the advice, my kronos did have surge protection and the venue was one weve played for about 8 years without power issues.

depends on your surge protection, I prefer something that has good voltage regulations as well. Certainly sounds like you should of been fine though. One of the people I know had issues with there video projector bulbs blowing all the time. Found that they had installed a neon sign and it kept doing weird stuff to the power. Installing a proper power conditioner regulator lengthened the life of their bulbs to double that the manufacturer said they should get. Without it they where lasted about 20% the time the manufacturer said they should get. So power may look fine but it can get slowly damaging your equipment, weakening it and making it more vulnerable. I got rid of my cheap UPS and my random reboots at a certain location disappeared. I feel a lot more relaxed now. A few guys here really helped me out getting a handle on the whole importance of regulated power.

I've seen *hit happen from harmonics that is so bizarre it's hard to believe. Jason Coombs had a simple transformer that we both checked and it was not letting current pass blowing fuses so we took it apart and unwound it looking for a broken or burnt wire but nothing. So we each did it again looking really close at every inch of the wire and couldn't believe there was no sign of a problem whatsoever....nothing! And the wire could pass a current so we were really baffled but this was not the first "that's not suppose to happen" event we saw collecting damaged equipment for a lawsuit dealing with harmonic distortion. I now know what happened and realize after we had had run a current through the copper wire if we had rewound it would have worked because the transformer had become a simi-conductor with the electrons all wacked out (without getting technical) from the harmonics as if the copper had turned into copper oxide. Saw things going on with capacitors doing the same thing basically where we were able to predict (and videoed Dan Moore's computer I built) that grounding them would allow a computer MB that was dead to boot up.

So I don't think the surge protector in use here was helping if it was caused by harmonics in the AC. This is why I NEVER PLUG ANYTHING I VALUE INTO THE WALL and have seen quality Tripp Lite ISOBARs surge suppressors with isolated filter banks giving protection @ 1.0 MHz do little to help when harmonics are present. And for digital recording in a studio you really should use balanced AC as it will improve the recording getting rid of jitter and sound cleaner as well as protect your equipment. If you spend a lot of money on electronics the cost of a BIT will pay for itself in all likelihood as when it happens its sudden, unexpected, and expensive. This may not be the case here.... but it sounds like a reasonable possibility as tested KORG gear that fails is usually being broken, not breaking by itself from my experience. Be interesting to see what Korg says caused it. Hate to hear this regarding the Kronos:-( Let us know what the outcome is.

And BTW if your surge suppresser has filtering you should never ever plug it into another power conditioner or another surge suppresser with filtering using it as an extension cord as you may induced unwanted harmonics doing that.

[Kenny59]

I currently have my keyboard rig plugged into a Furman AR-1215 voltage regulator that is plugged into a Furman PL-Plus Power Conditioner for several years. Is this a potential problem? I do this for the Racklights in my rack and the benefit of the voltage regulator for protection. This duo has worked flawlessly for a great while and is the result of trusting someone else that 120 volts is supplied as opposed to 240 volts. A very expensive lesson having to repair three keyboards, an assortment of rack gear, an amp, etc.

If this is a potential problem, I would like to rectify this immediately. Never heard of too much protection, but I learn something everyday.

Kenny59

[John Hendry]

Thought I'd update you guys on the progress korg have made since having it on their "bench" for the past week.
there are no signs of a surge realated problem but instead, poor instalation of a "ribbon".
The said ribbon was rubbing on a board and eventually exposed, shorted and burnt .
.

I'm posting this because this thread went on and on and just saw it had been resolved and this is something we should all be aware of. I may take mine apart and give it a checkup and get to the fan and mount the MB right side up....joke. But why it's upside down is strange since heat rises so good thing the Atom CPU runs so cool without a fan and just a heatsink. Since the Kronos is made in Japan I'm very surprised to hear this happened. But at least AC issues got discussed as too many people disregard it.

[Zeroesque]

Not to beat a dead horse, but put me into the category of, "be prepared."

If you're a professional, you should have at least a plan B for everything you do. Instrument, amp, mic, whatever...and be back up and running within a few songs.

There's no reason you can't have a backup keyboard if you can already afford a Kronos. A 5-octave portable keyboard from 10 years ago has adequate patches to cover most tunes and 90% of your audience won't know the difference. Will it be a fun gig for you? Probably not, but the show will go on, and it won't be you that derails the gig for your bandmates, the venue, or the audience.

Yes, I use my Kronos live.