Maximum length of Balanced Cables for live performance

fjs714 · Post by **fjs714** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:03 pm

Hi Fellas,
I'm doing a live job with 2 QSC speakers. My Kronos is going to be a bit of a distance from one of them. How long cables could I get before the quality of the sound is effected (if at all)?
Thanks
Frank

Joe Gerardi · Post by **Joe Gerardi** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:26 pm

IIRC, the max length of balanced cables should be less than 20 meters, or approx. 65 feet. Better to be safe and not go beyond 50 to avoid signal loss.

..Joe

fjs714 · Post by **fjs714** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:46 pm

Thanks Joe

fjs714 · Post by **fjs714** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:04 pm

Almost forgot

Does it make any difference if both cables are different in length?
Thanks

philmagnotta · Post by **philmagnotta** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:39 pm

You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
You mentioned balanced cable so, I assumed you were connecting the K to another device such as a D.I. or un-balanced to balanced line driver, etc device. There is no 65 foot max limit on balanced cables. It depends on the sending and receiving device. In fact, some devices allow even a 200 foot run. Can you explain how it is your K is sending balanced signals please? Regarding different lengths... If only several feet, No but if 20, 30 or more then Yes but, it depends on a few more details, if you would be more specific.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:09 pm

philmagnotta wrote:You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.

AFAIK it does via TRS. I just upgraded my live snake to TRS for the Kronos and while I haven't verified it with a dedicated a/b test, I believe there was more output as well!

LZ · Post by LZ » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:21 pm

NuSkoolTone wrote:
philmagnotta wrote:You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
AFAIK it does via TRS. I just upgraded my live snake to TRS for the Kronos and while I haven't verified it with a dedicated a/b test, I believe there was more output as well!

Typically you will get a hotter output running balanced, since the way the TRS connectors work, if you run unbalanced, you're essentially getting half the voltage, or 3dB less output.

DavyP · Post by **DavyP** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:51 pm

philmagnotta wrote:You didn't state by which device your kronos was connected in order that the signal has become "balanced" since the K doesn't have balanced outs.
You mentioned balanced cable so, I assumed you were connecting the K to another device such as a D.I. or un-balanced to balanced line driver, etc device. There is no 65 foot max limit on balanced cables. It depends on the sending and receiving device. In fact, some devices allow even a 200 foot run. Can you explain how it is your K is sending balanced signals please? Regarding different lengths... If only several feet, No but if 20, 30 or more then Yes but, it depends on a few more details, if you would be more specific.

According to the manuals the inputs and outputs are definitely all 1/4" TRS balanced connections.

Joe Gerardi · Post by **Joe Gerardi** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:32 pm

Phil:
There is no exact limited cable length, but using the standard 3dB signal loss over 100 feet without amplification of signal, and the fact that balanced IS 3dB of signal, then at 100 feet there is theoretically zero signal.

Which is why I stated limiting it to 50 feet.

..Joe

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:23 pm

50 feet is sensible for most semi-pro equipment. Shorter is usually preferred.
But depending on the equipment, cables can also run hundreds of feet without problems.

fjs714 · Post by **fjs714** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:23 pm

Boy,

You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer since he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Not noticeably, and especially not in the context.

iKeyborg · Post by **iKeyborg** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm

fjs714 wrote:Hi Fellas,
I'm doing a live job with 2 QSC speakers. My Kronos is going to be a bit of a distance from one of them. How long cables could I get before the quality of the sound is effected (if at all)?
Thanks
Frank

Longest cable can have 300' - 400'. It is not a problem for Kronos outputs.
You would not see any difference if another cable is significantly shorter.
Kornos has balanced outputs with impedance 350 Ohm. It can drive 10000pf - 15000pF of cable capacitance with signal loss at 20kHz about 1dBV. Typical balanced cable has 25 - 35 pF/ft. With 3bBV high frequency loss you can go up to 1000ft with good cable.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:22 pm

fjs714 wrote:Boy,

You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer sithe sweet spot in the stepnce he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again

that is an interesting way to monitor your keyboard. Does the drummer get upset when you blast him out because the speakers are closer to him than they are to you? How do you achieve the sweet spot in the stereo field for yourself?

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:23 pm

fjs714 wrote:Boy,

You guys really know your stuff. I try to keep it simple. I connect the Kronos directly to my QSC speakers. I have one on either side of the drummer sithe sweet spot in the stepnce he's in the middle of the stage. I also elevate them. That's why I wanted to know if different length Balanced cables (that's what I have) would affect the signal and thus the stereo sound.
Thanks again

that is an interesting way to monitor your keyboard. Does the drummer get upset when you blast him out because the speakers are closer to him than they are to you? How do you achieve the sweet spot in the stereo field for yourself?

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