Kronos88 Bad Keybed - Are they replacing these?

[Ernie Davis]

Ok....I bought a Kronos88 and I'm NOT happy at ALL! I have read multiple threads regarding a number of problems with the initial RH3 keybed i.e. cutoff notes, double triggering, bouncing, clonking sounds, and uneven key spacing.

I only have one real issue and I've seen this issue discussed in three ways: The double triggering and the cutoff notes and the bounce. IMOO, it's the same problem that causes all three of these.

Yes, occasionally I get a double trigger but, mostly; it's a cutoff note I'm having issue with. And it occurs when I'm trying to do ANY kind of SOFT piano work and mainly with my left hand.

What I feel going on with the board is this: It takes more pressure on the key to get it through it's first 20% or so of travel than it does to achieve the remaining 80%. I've not found this to be the case on any of the boards I've played since having this Kronos.

I believe the greater pressure required at the top of the keystroke is what's causing the "bounce," and the "cutoff," AND the "double trigger" and, therefore: The problem has nothing to do with the contacts or velocity curve settings. It is very much a physical problem with travel of the key to the bottom.

I've gone around and checked MANY boards since discovering this and found the pressure required to get a key to the bottom of it's range of travel is pretty consistent throughOUT the travel range in most all boards of any QUALITY and, especially, pianos.

With this problem board; the softer and slower you play, the more pronounced the problem becomes.

You're putting enough pressure on the key to get it thru the resistance at the top (more resistence in the first 20-30% of travel) and......when the key gets past that hump of greater resistance, your finger is still putting that greater pressure on the key. Well now were in the portion of the travel that requires less pressure. So....since your still putting initial-resistance pressure on it, it speeds up. I say that the problem becomes more pronounced when you play soft slow piano because, I think, somewhere in your mind, you sense the pressure-requirement decrease within the keys travel after it breaks over that initial hump, and your finger lessens the pressure your putting on the key. Well, now the key is traveling faster and your mind has tried to ease up. The key is now outrunning you. Ahead of you the key hits bottom and "bounces" right back up to your finger which is still traveling down and either you have enough pressure to rebottom it creating the "double trigger" or you you have pulled back enough pressure to NOT rebottom it causing that DAMNED "cutoff" note.

OK.....I've vented. And I've explained it the way I see it. NOW......WHAT the heck are they gonna do about it?

I've read and read and have heard of them doing things SHORT of replacing the keybed like changing contacts. This that n the other. This is not gonna fix MY problem. I very much believe that what I've explained above is the problem and no velocity-curve stuff or contact repair is gonna fix it.

The guy at Korg, upon listening to my explanation of my problem, was very much hinting that it falls within the parameters of a bulletin that has been issued regarding this......though he "could not say." I have put it in the shop today and am just wondering......

Does anyone know..........am i gonna get the runaround? Are they gonna try some BS repair? Are they fully supporting this issue with a keybed replacement?

Apparently, I have one from the initial batch of faulty keybeds. This is not good as my gigs are primarily piano and not "keyboard" type stuff. I cannot return this thing as it was bought on clearance. The Kronos I played in the store was not like this. I guess it was one of the later that had the corrected board in it.

[LZ]

It was a known issue, and the are fixing them. If you liked the one in the store, you should like this one after it's fixed.

[Ernie Davis]

Thank you LZ. I sure hope so. I SURELY love this Kronos otherwise. In fact, I'm just blown away by it. I hate the idea of not being able to use it as my piano controller.

[GregC]

Ok....I bought a Kronos88 and I'm NOT happy at ALL! I have read multiple threads regarding a number of problems with the initial RH3 keybed i.e. cutoff notes, double triggering, bouncing, clonking sounds, and uneven key spacing.

I only have one real issue and I've seen this issue discussed in three ways: The double triggering and the cutoff notes and the bounce. IMOO, it's the same problem that causes all three of these.

Yes, occasionally I get a double trigger but, mostly; it's a cutoff note I'm having issue with. And it occurs when I'm trying to do ANY kind of SOFT piano work and mainly with my left hand.

What I feel going on with the board is this: It takes more pressure on the key to get it through it's first 20% or so of travel than it does to achieve the remaining 80%. I've not found this to be the case on any of the boards I've played since having this Kronos.

I believe the greater pressure required at the top of the keystroke is what's causing the "bounce," and the "cutoff," AND the "double trigger" and, therefore: The problem has nothing to do with the contacts or velocity curve settings. It is very much a physical problem with travel of the key to the bottom.

I've gone around and checked MANY boards since discovering this and found the pressure required to get a key to the bottom of it's range of travel is pretty consistent throughOUT the travel range in most all boards of any QUALITY and, especially, pianos.

With this problem board; the softer and slower you play, the more pronounced the problem becomes.

You're putting enough pressure on the key to get it thru the resistance at the top (more resistence in the first 20-30% of travel) and......when the key gets past that hump of greater resistance, your finger is still putting that greater pressure on the key. Well now were in the portion of the travel that requires less pressure. So....since your still putting initial-resistance pressure on it, it speeds up. I say that the problem becomes more pronounced when you play soft slow piano because, I think, somewhere in your mind, you sense the pressure-requirement decrease within the keys travel after it breaks over that initial hump, and your finger lessens the pressure your putting on the key. Well, now the key is traveling faster and your mind has tried to ease up. The key is now outrunning you. Ahead of you the key hits bottom and "bounces" right back up to your finger which is still traveling down and either you have enough pressure to rebottom it creating the "double trigger" or you you have pulled back enough pressure to NOT rebottom it causing that DAMNED "cutoff" note.

OK.....I've vented. And I've explained it the way I see it. NOW......WHAT the heck are they gonna do about it?

I've read and read and have heard of them doing things SHORT of replacing the keybed like changing contacts. This that n the other. This is not gonna fix MY problem. I very much believe that what I've explained above is the problem and no velocity-curve stuff or contact repair is gonna fix it.

The guy at Korg, upon listening to my explanation of my problem, was very much hinting that it falls within the parameters of a bulletin that has been issued regarding this......though he "could not say." I have put it in the shop today and am just wondering......

Does anyone know..........am i gonna get the runaround? Are they gonna try some BS repair? Are they fully supporting this issue with a keybed replacement?

Apparently, I have one from the initial batch of faulty keybeds. This is not good as my gigs are primarily piano and not "keyboard" type stuff. I cannot return this thing as it was bought on clearance. The Kronos I played in the store was not like this. I guess it was one of the later that had the corrected board in it.

details

the first run from almost 3 years ago did have some faulty key beds as far as we presume.

As a result, I have recommended staying away the early batch as noted by a low serial #, assuming it was not repaired.

buying these as a clearance is also a hint, since it was likely a prior customer return

if you paid by credit card, I think you can still dispute it, since it was obviously defective.

[Ernie Davis]

It was not a return. Fully factory sealed. Made sure I was getting a NEW item. My question was: Are they supporting this issue? Are they taking the long road of ill-fated repair attempts or are they just replacing the beds or what? Is it gonna be like chasing a monkey or what?

[GregC]

It was not a return. Fully factory sealed. Made sure I was getting a NEW item. My question was: Are they supporting this issue? Are they taking the long road of ill-fated repair attempts or are they just replacing the beds or what? Is it gonna be like chasing a monkey or what?

To clarify, did you discover this symptom on other Kronos keyboards ?

[Ernie Davis]

I did not find it on the one I played in the store. Friend of mind bought the same board and it has the same problem. He did not buy his new though.

BUT, from what the Korg guy was saying, sounds like my friend will be able to have his problem fixed too even though he's not the original purchaser and their warranties are not transferrable.

The Korg guy equated "bulletin" repairs with vehicle recalls. When a vehicle recall is made (especially in the name of safety) the problem is to be fixed REGARDLESS of warranty, therefore; regardless of whether the owner was the initial purchaser or NOT. Remember that he hinted that my problem fell within the parameters of a bulletin that he hinted was issued on this problem.

[LZ]

He has to be careful not to tell you for sure until he verifies that it is the key bed that was essentially "recalled", just in case it turned out to be something else.

[GregC]

I did not find it on the one I played in the store.

I think you have your answer.

Plus no one here is a qualified Korg Service rep or can accurately predict what your service experience will be like.

If you ask pointed questions to the Service rep, about fix it time and to achieve your specific results, you have to listen to what his answers are. You would have to be on the same page on the key bed diagnosis.

If you don't like what you hear, not on the same page, that will guide you what to do.

[danmusician]

It was not a return. Fully factory sealed. Made sure I was getting a NEW item. My question was: Are they supporting this issue? Are they taking the long road of ill-fated repair attempts or are they just replacing the beds or what? Is it gonna be like chasing a monkey or what?

Keep in mind, this is a niche market item. The number of musicians likely to buy such an instrument is a relatively small subset. Then divide that over all the brands available. The point is that it is entirely reasonable for a store to have Kronoses in stock for quite awhile before they sell, especially if it's not a high volume store.

It would be unreasonable to expect the dealer to break the seal on all of the Kronoses in stock to check for the cutoff issue since it is a small percentage of instruments that have the problem. Even if they had 10 in stock, which is unlikely, they would have 10 opened instruments with the chance of finding 1 or 2.

It is a quick and easy fix. They can have you up in running again in under 10 minutes.

[LZ]

On another note, I'll add: if it's old enough to have the key bed issue, you'll for sure want to be updating the OS to the latest when you get it back.

[Ernie Davis]

Yeah, I'm having the RAM maxed out and OS/firmware updated as required to match the new keybed as I've read a mismatch will surely screw up the velocity-curve handling.

[pedro5]

Ernie...

Sorry to hear about your problems and I do hope that it can be sorted out soon.

My Kronos is currently being repaired for a similar fault,mainly the velocity level differences between notes,but not the key "bounce" nor the "cut off" ones,thankfuly.
This will be the second time it's been sent to the service centre…..they said it was ok the first time and replaced the contacts as a matter of routine.
Their report stated that following workshop testing,it was fault free.
Shame that it had an additional fault when I received it back again,though…..which wasn't there prior to its first visit…..plus the original one,of course.

I've gone to great lengths in providing some evidence of the problems,together with a detailed explanation,so,I'm hoping they will repair it properly this time.

Speaking of time,it's a four week turn around for each repair/journey,which will mean that I'll have lost about two months usage.
I shall accept that without any further moaning IF…..(?)…they return it fault free etc.

Question….
Does the problem occur with all the piano voices ?

My problem affected the SGX pianos mainly,but could play the HD ones a little better by comparison and most of the other voices seemed to be ok.
The RH3 keybed suits me,so,I prefer to stick with it for while longer to find out if things can be rectified.

I do wish you luck with your plight and also hope a solution can be found.

Best Wishes.

[Ernie Davis]

Hey Pedro. Sorry to hear about the issues you're having. Hope all turns out well.

My problem is the same with whatever voice I play in the same manner.

[pedro5]

Thanks for your good wishes.
I should have suggested trying the latest o/s update as it does include a patch for the early key bounce/re-triggering problem.
Perhaps you prefer not to do anything yourself and will rely on the service centre to sort things out instead.
It won't do any harm to do so though,if done correctly.

However,when they do a workshop update/repair they will also change the keyboard type in the onboard test page (which you won't have access to…)so maybe my suggestion holds false hope and won't provide a complete cure……but worth considering just for the sake of curiosity.

Do let us know what happens,please.

Best Wishes.