electribe 2, a big disappointment.

[MS-DOS]

Well there's a dripping in sourness response haha!

just to be clear, i really do respect the fact that some people dont find any of my quibbles problematic.
different people, different needs. thats the beauty of it.

part of the problem were my expectations i do realize that. but again was really surprised how much was taken away from this new iteration.

i think my opinion is valid so i wrote it up, for someone to maybe benefit from it. or not. this is not supposed to turn into a mud slinging. so if anyone does want to chime in, just be normal and not a douchbag.

'No actual depth' is a sour and 'DB' thing to say. You're disappointed I get it but this unit clearly has depth. go look on youtube at daypak's set for example........you sound like someone who is let down but manage your own expectations better maybe. You might feel like you wasted soem money but you'll get it back right?

sorry if it came across this way. i am probably wrong since i gave it a couple of weeks only.
for anyone feeling offended, my apologies.

[Tarekith]

i am sure that the box unfolds itself after some use but the problem is i found no actual depth to it. there is no learning curve really. its simple.

I think the depth in all the elctribes comes not from their individual parts and features, but in the way they can work together. If you look at the electribe as a simple sequencer that plays some basic synths through minimal effects, then it definitely starts to feel like there's nothing but limitations getting in the way.

It's not one of those things where you spend some time creating a cool sound first, then record yourself playing it, and finally add some effects to polish it up. With a workflow/mindset like that, it's boring as hell, I agree.

BUT, when you instead focus on creating grooves and not synth sounds you neccesarily "play", then things get more interesting. Maybe a crazy BPM LFO modulation on a particular OSC's Edit knob sounds killer with the high hat pattern you programmed. Or perhaps it's manually tweaking the filter cutoff when set to the MS20 bandpass mode, and then you accidentally switch the motion recording to step mode instead of smooth and you end up with something totally different than you planned, but sounds way better than you expected.

The depth in the electribes comes from these sort of interactions and how they compliment not only each other, but other happy accidents in the same pattern. Things like that take time to learn and understand to the point where you're not just hoping for accidents, and I think very few people have had it long enough to really explore it with that much depth.

To me it's more about creating cool sounding musical phrases. Via a combination of real time playing/tweaking, and using the built in effects and modulations in interesting ways you might not have tried with a regular synth. And by regular synth I mean something where you can create sounds that are cool regardless of the tempo or notes you play, versus something like the electribe that relies on the interaction of pattern specific grooves to really shine. That's what seperates groove boxes from other devices IMO.

Not trying to disagree with you, some of the limitations you list are things that frustrate me too. Heck, I could add quite a few more. Just that it takes time to really learn the nuances of these critical interactions to get the most out of ANY of the electribes IMO. Some people just don't have the patience, and fair play to them, groovebox work flows aren't for everyone. But at the same time I think there's a lot more depth to the electribe than a lot of people have taken the time to really explore or understand.

The original EMX was the same way IMO. It took a few months before people really started understanding just how much depth was there, and I think with the tools Korg have included in the new electribe, it might even take longer as there's just so many more possibilities now.

Then again, just my $0.02. I get frustrated with it too sometimes FWIW.

[captain johnson]

I understand, when you buy something and then you feel let down when a new incarnation appears.

Welcome to me and live 9.2 - no support for OSX snow leopard. I use old macs to mix down stuff etc. Not upgarding live to lose rock solid OSX. (FUME)

Anyway.....don't get angry or blame the unit. I think over the next update or so it'll come into it's own and it defo does have a lot of character. I've had a go of my mates one an it does sound boss.....imo of course

[MS-DOS]

here we go. i expected something like this and even put a disclaimer that this is just my take. its not a debate. i was respectful all the way but and you have felt the need to be confrontational about it.

You've misunderstood my tone.

You've popped into a forum to talk about a piece of gear you've already abandoned, so you have no stake.

Why can't this be a debate? You expressed yourself, I expressed myself.


More people will read this than will register and reply. I think those people deserve to hear a point-by-point rebuttal on a thread called "electribe 2, a big disappointment."

If you're looking for 'respect' from strangers on the internet, you've got a long and interesting journey in front of you.

My hope is someone takes my points and rebuts them, and they're free to call me an idiot.

Selling gear in the first 30 days is for quitters - or people who didn't research.

yeah fugg that noise.

you cant do a rebuttal on someones personal experience. i mean you can but certainly not in a flippant way you did.

i got you all the way, and again implying i am a quitter is no way to engage with me.

you are right about one thing though. i did no research since there was 0 info to be found.

as i said, this is academic as i was stating my own problems with the unit.
my - own - problems. please get this.

[roblabs]

MS-DOS,

I'm curious, how long did you have it before you sold it? For me, and it seems with a few others, also, you go through phases with this electribe. I was infatuated, then disappointed, then slightly accepting, then gradually started warming up to it. Now I can't get enough of it. I'm not implying here that this is the de facto path for each user, but I do wonder if you gave it enough time. Contrary to what you wrote, there IS depth in the electribe2, because there are many tricks and workflows to discover. It looks more immediate than it actually is, in my opinion.

I think it all boils down to what you want out of it and what you're willing to put up with. For me the only real complaint that I now have of the electribe2 is the clicky-ness. Its not normal clicking as you might get from a normal synth, its clicking based on quick re-triggering, exactly as you mentioned. In fact as far as I know I was the first user to point this out and started a thread here on it. Even pointed it out to Korg and they responded saying that they are going to send my findings to the Dev team - I hope that's genuine and not some scripted response! But I have learned to work with it somewhat through patience

One final thought. If you're planning to get the sampler version, you should wait for the manuals to be posted or else try one before buying. Its likely that some of the same things about the interface and design will bother you - but again, if you give it some time you might warm up to it.

[MS-DOS]

I understand, when you buy something and then you feel let down when a new incarnation appears.

Welcome to me and live 9.2 - no support for OSX snow leopard. I use old macs to mix down stuff etc. Not upgarding live to lose rock solid OSX. (FUME)

Anyway.....don't get angry or blame the unit. I think over the next update or so it'll come into it's own and it defo does have a lot of character. I've had a go of my mates one an it does sound boss.....imo of course

right you are mate. i might get back to it on day, it costs peanuts.
but there is no anger. anger leads to suffering

no i was just lamenting a bit. i love the emx and had higher hopes is all.
again my fault to biggest extent.

[roblabs]

i love the emx and had higher hopes is all.
again my fault to biggest extent.

THIS might be the biggest factor in user letdown with the new tribe2 - comparing it to the other iterations. As I have no experience with the X series, I was instead comparing it to the ES1 and EA1. Over time I learned that this is a mistake. Don't waste time doing this, because this is a re-imagining and re-thinking. If you spend your time working with the new features of it rather than comparing it to the older line, you'll get far more accomplished.

[captain johnson]

I understand, when you buy something and then you feel let down when a new incarnation appears.

Welcome to me and live 9.2 - no support for OSX snow leopard. I use old macs to mix down stuff etc. Not upgarding live to lose rock solid OSX. (FUME)

Anyway.....don't get angry or blame the unit. I think over the next update or so it'll come into it's own and it defo does have a lot of character. I've had a go of my mates one an it does sound boss.....imo of course

right you are mate. i might get back to it on day, it costs peanuts.
but there is no anger. anger leads to suffering

no i was just lamenting a bit. i love the emx and had higher hopes is all.
again my fault to biggest extent.

Don't be sorry! haha there must be something more for you waiting to come out. However I do like your suggestion of a 'pro' tribe - as in a more enhanced version! bet there is one on the cards waiting to come out as soon as I've plunged money into an E2 haha!

[MS-DOS]

MS-DOS,

I'm curious...

i had it for a month or two. used it on and off in different sort of setups. not slagging the unit, i still liked it. as a combo with the ipad it really is dope.
but some of the issues above just bugged me because i thought with little effort the unit might have been alot more.

and thank you for mentioning the clickines. i did not even want to get into the "analog synths click too" bullish. this is dsp and there is no excuse to have such an undesirable artefact. its clearly an envelope problem. which gets worse when using delays or reverb.

i will definitely take your advice. before buying the sampler i will try it out and be aware of all the limitations.

still probably will buy it anyway:)

[MS-DOS]

i am sure that the box unfolds itself after some use but the problem is i found no actual depth to it. there is no learning curve really. its simple.

I think the depth in all the elctribes comes not from their individual parts and features, but in the way they can work together. If you look at the electribe as a simple sequencer that plays some basic synths through minimal effects, then it definitely starts to feel like there's nothing but limitations getting in the way.

It's not one of those things where you spend some time creating a cool sound first, then record yourself playing it, and finally add some effects to polish it up. With a workflow/mindset like that, it's boring as hell, I agree.

BUT, when you instead focus on creating grooves and not synth sounds you neccesarily "play", then things get more interesting. Maybe a crazy BPM LFO modulation on a particular OSC's Edit knob sounds killer with the high hat pattern you programmed. Or perhaps it's manually tweaking the filter cutoff when set to the MS20 bandpass mode, and then you accidentally switch the motion recording to step mode instead of smooth and you end up with something totally different than you planned, but sounds way better than you expected.

The depth in the electribes comes from these sort of interactions and how they compliment not only each other, but other happy accidents in the same pattern. Things like that take time to learn and understand to the point where you're not just hoping for accidents, and I think very few people have had it long enough to really explore it with that much depth.

To me it's more about creating cool sounding musical phrases. Via a combination of real time playing/tweaking, and using the built in effects and modulations in interesting ways you might not have tried with a regular synth. And by regular synth I mean something where you can create sounds that are cool regardless of the tempo or notes you play, versus something like the electribe that relies on the interaction of pattern specific grooves to really shine. That's what seperates groove boxes from other devices IMO.

Not trying to disagree with you, some of the limitations you list are things that frustrate me too. Heck, I could add quite a few more. Just that it takes time to really learn the nuances of these critical interactions to get the most out of ANY of the electribes IMO. Some people just don't have the patience, and fair play to them, groovebox work flows aren't for everyone. But at the same time I think there's a lot more depth to the electribe than a lot of people have taken the time to really explore or understand.

The original EMX was the same way IMO. It took a few months before people really started understanding just how much depth was there, and I think with the tools Korg have included in the new electribe, it might even take longer as there's just so many more possibilities now.

Then again, just my $0.02. I get frustrated with it too sometimes FWIW.

this is an extremely important and clever observation. and exactly the way i was using the emx. single parts by itself are nothing special but serve as a palette for a greater whole.

in this light i accepted the e2. its just that 1 param per part. 1 param per effect, 1 effect per part. it bugged me so much. even by adding one more parameter, the possibilites grow exponentially.

considering however there are 16 parts, that may actually help alot in terms of phrase construction.

its just that, what "might have been" feeling. after 10 years of people demanding an update - it was anticlimactic.

not after any validation but am glad that some acknowledge certain issues.

[256K]

The E2 seems to be very polarizing. I'll admit, I never owned the hardware EMX, but spent plenty of time with iPad version. I can certainly see where a big fan of the EMX would be confused and frustrated by some of the workflow changes in the new box.

I bought the E2 on a whim after watching Tarekith's review. I had some serious buyer remorse for the first week - I almost sent it back a number times after 2 hour jam sessions where I just couldn't squeeze anything interesting out of it. Now, I can't imagine not having it. That's not to say the E2 is a perfect box. (Almost) every gripe you listed is valid, and for some, may be a deal breaker.

I've found that I am able to create some really weird, interesting, even great-sounding and highly usable patterns with the sound engine. I feel that Korg product always force you to work within limitations, some of which make no sense. But limitations can endorse creativity rather than stifle it. I find myself more and more inspired by the E2 every time I sit down with it. Creating something that doesn't sound cheesy may be a bigger challenge on the E2, but it's ultimately more gratifying. I also really dig the "bland" minimal look of the box (I usually disable the color flashes on the bottom.) I'm kind of sick of all my hardware looking like lame DJ toy s**t.

I will say, you have to devote some time to this box. The learning curve is a little unconventional, but now that I know it's possible for me to make this box sound great, I am much more patient with it. Learning shortcuts really speeds things up. I think anyone who sticks with the box will eventually grow a soft spot for it. I do wish for more control over MFX, and I am hopeful for firmware updates, but even if they never come I'll have my E2 for a long time.

I complete agree with this.... at first when i got it and worked with it a little bit i managed to get some stuff out of it but i found myself swimming up stream so to speak when it came to being creative with it... i found myself trying to force my preconceived production skills into this little box but after trying that and failing miserably and thinking time and again about selling it and getting a push controller for my ableton and staying PC based (even though buying this was the whole point... getting away from PC production) I started trying to do more experimental stuff with it until i realized that i had to learn to let the machine direct itself the way it wants to be used.. ( i dunno if that makes any sense to you guys) and also i started exploiting the limitations and the different workflow to create really odd and glitchy things that would be otherwise very complicated to reproduce in a DAW.... and HERE is where i find its biggest strength....

instead of saying how can make this song the way i would on a daw into the groovebox, say: how can i make stuff that would otherwise be really hard on a daw but easy on this...

Anyways after a few weeks of hesitation im starting to warm up again and also making my peace with it's lack of depth in some aspects...

Also regarding using this in public places. i haven't had a chance yet to take it out much but when you're travelling (like i will be in a month on a plane for 6 hours) i think it would be an amazing kit to just play around with.

And yes using my rechargeable batteries it eats batteries up like crazy and ive also noticed that at the 2 bars battery mark it just crashes and can't power it anymore... i never get to a single bar or empty bars... dunno if it's my rechargeables or my device.. the rechargeables are fairly old so im investing in eneloop rechargeables and a nice 8 bay charger...


tl;dr : machine has limitations, don't try to foce your production and workflow with a daw on it, rather let it guide you towards the way it wants to be used and you'll find out crazy new ways of making special sounds that you couldn't do easily on a regular daw or synth.

m2c

[256K]

Also, i think KORG could've easily made a 2 thousand dollar complete hardware daw sequencer/synth like the elektrons for example but they instead went into a lower market range where they noticed a gap and completely took it over.....

Sure you can go pay a couple of Gs on a sweet deep rich complex elektron synth/sampler/sequencer but if you don't have that kindof money (which most selfestablished artists don't) here's something that's fun as f*ck but don't expect the world out of it.

Do you guys agree? I'm planning on getting a bit more familar with it and then im going to start doing shows with only it and 2 synced gameboys along side it. really going the lo-fi side rather than always trying to get higher and higher in the hi-fi side of things.

sometimes for live shows havving a gritty lo-fi glitchy sound can be a lot more fun

[MS-DOS]

256k you are right ofcourse, but solving most of the qualms i have, such as midi cc not being automated, would not push it into the high end spectrum but would have made it far more useful across the board. adding a second edit param likewise. so little would go a long way.

it could find its way in many, many more studios just for sequencing capabilities for basically 0 additional cost.

thats what i dont get. why gimp it?
again only reason is they designed it to fit a certain pricepoint and i imagine not to cannibalize sales of an eventual pro version. pure speculation of course.

if a firmware update changes the bugs noted by the users i might pick it up again, but i am quite certain that nothing will change feature wise.

btw if you are after some glitchy 8-bit game flavoured do yourself a favour and check out soulsby synth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyapZZPuqoo

it sounds like it may be right up your alley.

[Frenzies]

I've never got a new synth that didn't piss me off or disappoint me to some extent, the e2 is no different. After a couple of days I moaned to my girlfriend about how it didn't do this that or the other and she just said 'well, you'll just have to work within what it can do', and she was right. I think many people sit and wait for the next big release with the feeling that this will be the one that propels me from bedroom nobody to international superstar, and when it turns out when you get the unit that you're still actually not that great it's very easy or blame the synth or whatever, as none of us really want to admit to ourselves that we are not all that.
I never had any of the other electribes, so I can't really compare what this can do to those, but for what I bought it for, which was a central brain for a load of external synths for live work, I think it's working really well.
I've certainly found that it has made me much more prolific. I started making electronic music in the early 90s on a Korg 01/W workstation, which I used for years and years, and still own now. I knew that machine so well and there was never any issues that stifled my creativity (things get harder as you get older, so that's important). When I changed on to Computer based daws I found I'd spend half my time trying to work out why things aren't working properly. Now, with the e2, and a simple midi based workflow, and no computer, I have made more music since Christmas than I have in years.

[MS-DOS]

thats the problem see, mine told me "well, so then sell it". we are but puppets of the women:)