Smooth Sound Transition...

GrandMasterKorg · Post by **GrandMasterKorg** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:45 pm

The smooth sound transition is not working perfect...

Say, I play a single key for example C1 from a program and then I keep the key C1 pressed and the program therefore sounding, while I hit the INC button. The program is still sounding, because it is for example a pad sound with a lot of action ongoing, maybe it's a wave sequence with aftertouch. So while I control the sound via aftertouch I can for example modulate the filter. Note that in the moment the program is not anymore active, because I chose the neighbor program, which is, let's say a monophonic lead sound. Now I can play some lead hooks.

I still have the key C1 down and the wave sequence sounding. But now, if I hit the INC button again, to change to a new sound, the wave sequence is abruptly stopped.

And this is something what I really don't like. I think the voices should be played as long as the key is pressed. I think the software should be able to do this. There are 200 independent voices and every voice should be able to play a single dedicated program.

So for my understanding, the smooth sound transition is not keeping the promises.

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:07 pm

SST only supports ONE change. If you play a note on patch A and then switch to patch B, the sound from A will continue to play. Once you switch to C, the sound from A will stop.

ferchis · Post by **ferchis** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:28 pm

BillW wrote:SST only supports ONE change. If you play a note on patch A and then switch to patch B, the sound from A will continue to play. Once you switch to C, the sound from A will stop.

+1

I think you got the SST wrong...

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:42 pm

From the introduction to the Smooth Sound Transitions section in the Operation Guide (do check out the manuals - they will be helpful!):

"SST works between two sounds at a time: the current sound and the previous sound. If you select a new sound while two older sounds are still overlapping, the oldest sound stops."

GrandMasterKorg · Post by **GrandMasterKorg** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:28 pm

This all may be right, but I tell you what I expect from the smooth sound transition. In my opinion there is space for improvement.

Because the way I work, is, to choose a program and press the key down to keep it sounding and then I go on to switch trough the next sounds to find a sound that matches to the first continuously sounding sound.

But with the current SST this is not possible. My Access Virus TI1 can do it. The voices are completely independent, each of the voices can play it's dedicated program.

But neverheless, for the future, Korg should work on it, because the situation happens very often, that the second sound is not the right one and you have to change again, but you need the first sound playing.

danatkorg wrote: "SST works between two sounds at a time: the current sound and the previous sound. If you select a new sound while two older sounds are still overlapping, the oldest sound stops."

And by the way, the sounds I am talking about are not still overlapping. Only the first sound is always sounding, the second one WAS overlapping and then got stopped, because of it's released key and short release time. So the definition is not absolutely correct.

Maybe a software update can bring the SST 2.0 to us?

geoelectro · Post by **geoelectro** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:03 am

In combi mode you can have your first sound playing as long as you like while changing sounds all you want in the other 15 timbres.

Or plan ahead better.

Geo

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:08 am

I understand the desire for multiple sounds to overlap, rather than simply two. As described in detail in that section of the manuals, the system is set up strictly for two sounds, one old and one new. It's unlikely that will change in the near term.

In general, I would recommend reading that section of the manuals for a better understanding of this part of the system. It's only a few pages.

GrandMasterKorg · Post by **GrandMasterKorg** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:25 am

Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:45 am

danatkorg wrote:I understand the desire for multiple sounds to overlap, rather than simply two. As described in detail in that section of the manuals, the system is set up strictly for two sounds, one old and one new. It's unlikely that will change in the near term.

How about this logic: we have sound A and sound B. If sound A is still playing after SST (we're now on sound B), and if we change to sound C which happens to be exactly the same sound as sound A, just divert the resources back to sound A instead, don't stop anything.

Basically if I am understanding how Kronos does things, it has 4 cores - one for the sound engines, one for the effects, and a duplicate of that for SST. So, while SST is active, all 4 cores are in full motion. Can't see why it couldn't be made so that if SST cores are active AND you're going back to that same sound running on SST cores, it doesn't stop that sound.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:55 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
danatkorg wrote:I understand the desire for multiple sounds to overlap, rather than simply two. As described in detail in that section of the manuals, the system is set up strictly for two sounds, one old and one new. It's unlikely that will change in the near term.
Basically if I am understanding how Kronos does things, it has 4 cores - one for the sound engines, one for the effects, and a duplicate of that for SST.

That approach would have caused a serious hit to efficiency, wasting half the processing power most of the time! We did something different. Here's a quote from the Performance Meters section of the Parameter Guide:

"Effects CPU
The KRONOS uses multiple CPUs for playing synthesizer voices, and a separate CPU for effects processing including IFX, MFX, and TFX. Note that effects integrated into EXi use the voice CPUs instead, and show up on the meters as EXi fixed resources, as described above."

And, I didn't say that anything *couldn't* happen - just that in the near term it was unlikely.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:21 pm

Question raises - what could Kronos have done with a more powerful Atom CPU, say, a quad core Bay Trail-I, or an Avoton octacore?

Doubling the polyphony? More insert FX? More SST wizardry? Ehehe.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:59 pm

It's strange, but my cheap but handy Roland GW7 also has SST!

Which seems even more powerful than that in Kronos, because when I select Organ and keep the key pressed, then select Strings and keep the key, then select Sax and keep the key, all three sounds continue to sound as long as I keep its keys.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:07 pm

Aziz1008 wrote:It's strange, but my cheap but handy Roland GW7 also has SST!

Which seems even more powerful than that in Kronos, because when I select Organ and keep the key pressed, then select Strings and keep the key, then select Sax and keep the key, all three sounds continue to sound as long as I keep its keys.

But, the effects don't continue - and that's the real trick, and what distinguishes SST.

The OASYS also kept multiple previous sounds going, as you describe. But, as with your Roland, the effects had to change. With the KRONOS, the effects of the previous sound are kept too, so that reverbs and delays don't get cut off, and timbre-altering effects such as distortion, chorus, phasers etc. stay with the sound. That's why we call it SST. That's also why it's limited to two simultaneous sounds.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:48 pm

I see, that's cool thank you.. Though it doesn't matter on this Roland where it more relies upon sample quality itself, so effects are barely used. ))

I've noticed also that Kronos continues to fade away sound even without having its key pressed. That's a great feature.

RichardTRelayer · Post by **RichardTRelayer** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:18 pm

My Alesis QS8 also has SST without the effects continuing. It makes some transitions pretty shocking without planning for similar effects and accidents can be embarassing. By comparison my K88 is much easier to manage and the point about using combi timbres looks promising. I love it but have to remember my sustain pedal is not a magic pedal.
Mega polyphony is taken for granted but polyeffectony could be the feature of the future and kronos SST is a step towards it. Meanwhile could it be possible to transit ABCD while making a setting to allow A to continue through but kill B&C instead?
Apologies if this doesn't make complete sense, long day.