Will there any further OS updates for the Pa3X?
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Will there any further OS updates for the Pa3X?
Does anyone know if there will be any other OS updates on the Pa3X? Hope that KORG keeps issuing updates even if a newer model (Pa4) may hit the music scene in the future.
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Dikikeys
What do you think the main need for a new OS is, Mike? Anything in particular you looking for?
One thing that could be added that I think would be a MAJOR update to the PA3x OS would be the ability to save Chord Sequences, and associate them with Songbook entries.
Think about it... call up a Song entry, and the regular chords for the tune are automatically loaded, to be used as and when you want. Of course, you still have full control over Variations and Fills, so each iteration of the CS can sound different (and you can turn it off to perform bridges or vamps, then turn it back on again), and you can freely transpose it, so later verses could be 'lifted' (think 'On Broadway'!), but right out of the gate you could be playing freely with BOTH hands without having to first play the CS in.
Short of major changes to how the Korg deals with audio loops (I think we are going to have to wait for a PA4x before we see anything significant there), I think this would utterly change how we interact with our arrangers.
Maybe the other thing that could fairly easily be added that could radically change the sound of the PA3x is the ability to offset Style Parts' velocities depending on how hard YOU are playing. My Roland can do this, and it's utterly amazing, used subtly (or not so subtly!). The backing band starts to play like they are LISTENING to you!
I expect Korg are mostly focused on the PA4x design, but here's some things they could fairly easily add to the PA3x (and debug and perfect it before inclusion in the PA4x) that could utterly change the way we interact with an arranger.
Here's hoping.
One thing that could be added that I think would be a MAJOR update to the PA3x OS would be the ability to save Chord Sequences, and associate them with Songbook entries.
Think about it... call up a Song entry, and the regular chords for the tune are automatically loaded, to be used as and when you want. Of course, you still have full control over Variations and Fills, so each iteration of the CS can sound different (and you can turn it off to perform bridges or vamps, then turn it back on again), and you can freely transpose it, so later verses could be 'lifted' (think 'On Broadway'!), but right out of the gate you could be playing freely with BOTH hands without having to first play the CS in.
Short of major changes to how the Korg deals with audio loops (I think we are going to have to wait for a PA4x before we see anything significant there), I think this would utterly change how we interact with our arrangers.
Maybe the other thing that could fairly easily be added that could radically change the sound of the PA3x is the ability to offset Style Parts' velocities depending on how hard YOU are playing. My Roland can do this, and it's utterly amazing, used subtly (or not so subtly!). The backing band starts to play like they are LISTENING to you!
I expect Korg are mostly focused on the PA4x design, but here's some things they could fairly easily add to the PA3x (and debug and perfect it before inclusion in the PA4x) that could utterly change the way we interact with an arranger.
Here's hoping.
I agree with you. I am always looking for new song styles with the updates.Dikikeys wrote:What do you think the main need for a new OS is, Mike? Anything in particular you looking for?
One thing that could be added that I think would be a MAJOR update to the PA3x OS would be the ability to save Chord Sequences, and associate them with Songbook entries.
Think about it... call up a Song entry, and the regular chords for the tune are automatically loaded, to be used as and when you want. Of course, you still have full control over Variations and Fills, so each iteration of the CS can sound different (and you can turn it off to perform bridges or vamps, then turn it back on again), and you can freely transpose it, so later verses could be 'lifted' (think 'On Broadway'!), but right out of the gate you could be playing freely with BOTH hands without having to first play the CS in.
Short of major changes to how the Korg deals with audio loops (I think we are going to have to wait for a PA4x before we see anything significant there), I think this would utterly change how we interact with our arrangers.
Maybe the other thing that could fairly easily be added that could radically change the sound of the PA3x is the ability to offset Style Parts' velocities depending on how hard YOU are playing. My Roland can do this, and it's utterly amazing, used subtly (or not so subtly!). The backing band starts to play like they are LISTENING to you!
I expect Korg are mostly focused on the PA4x design, but here's some things they could fairly easily add to the PA3x (and debug and perfect it before inclusion in the PA4x) that could utterly change the way we interact with an arranger.
Here's hoping.
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barry murphy
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I don't think you'll get that dikikeys.
It would make the KB complete in my mind.
My 15yo kn6000 can do it but would it be possible with thepa3x?
My money is on the 4x having it.
I agree with the debug part. Why do all these company's never finish a job before moving on?
baz
Mike you can get plenty of styles on creative song style but you will have to tweak tweak tweak.
It would make the KB complete in my mind.
My 15yo kn6000 can do it but would it be possible with thepa3x?
My money is on the 4x having it.
I agree with the debug part. Why do all these company's never finish a job before moving on?
baz
Mike you can get plenty of styles on creative song style but you will have to tweak tweak tweak.
Korg pa3x. KN6000.Keylab49.presonus firestudo project.M audio bx5 mons studio 1,3varius mics
Hi... the same old MUCH needed capabilities
AMS for style variation parts (1-6) which currently can only be changed by different types of chords.
AND
Ability to change intensity of style based on how hard the keyboard is played.
These are MOST needed and Both should be easily doable as the latter is already in other brands mid range arrangers.
...it seems we keep saying all this for nothing....but must continue and hopefully be heard one day or simply move on to another brand eventually.
AMS for style variation parts (1-6) which currently can only be changed by different types of chords.
AND
Ability to change intensity of style based on how hard the keyboard is played.
These are MOST needed and Both should be easily doable as the latter is already in other brands mid range arrangers.
...it seems we keep saying all this for nothing....but must continue and hopefully be heard one day or simply move on to another brand eventually.
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karmathanever
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Personally I do not think we will see significant changes (if any) to PA3X OS.
If the new PA (guess "PA4X") is truly near and Korg Italy history is anything to go by, then I think PA3X OS days could be over.
However, recent contact here on these forums from Korg Italy state that PA3X is still in production. Also PA3XLE is relatively new.
So, keep hoping - stranger things have happened!!
If Kronos OS is anything to go by (not, I guess - as we are talking of two "different" Korgs here) then there's hope.
Time will tell…..
If the new PA (guess "PA4X") is truly near and Korg Italy history is anything to go by, then I think PA3X OS days could be over.
However, recent contact here on these forums from Korg Italy state that PA3X is still in production. Also PA3XLE is relatively new.
So, keep hoping - stranger things have happened!!
If Kronos OS is anything to go by (not, I guess - as we are talking of two "different" Korgs here) then there's hope.
Time will tell…..
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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Dikikeys
I agree with you, Karma... While these features COULD be added to the PA3x's OS (neither of them are particularly complex), I somehow think that if they ARE working on them, which nobody has a clue yet (I haven't seen that much forum chatter about either of those ideas yet), it's unlikely, given that the PA4x is probably coming out SOME time this year that Korg want to give away either of these killer features.
And, to be honest, unless the forum explodes with people demanding them (it seems that not everybody understands how useful either of them could be!) I don't think they are strong on Korg's radar. If this thread were the FIRST thing that got their attention, I doubt at this point that they could even roll them into the PA4x's first OS...
As the OP's last post points out
But the velocity offsets thing is amazing when tied to sounds that change over velocity... drum sounds with three or four layers, bass sounds that dig in more, guitar parts with velocity switching between hard and soft playing. Use your playing strength to offset the style, and the band suddenly starts to sound 'live', and backs off and digs in as needed, in response to how hard YOU are playing. Such a small thing, with such a radical effect...
But unless the forum as a whole starts to pipe up and ask for it, given that Korg have long ignored this idea, your odds of getting it remain slim. And even slimmer on the current model!
And, to be honest, unless the forum explodes with people demanding them (it seems that not everybody understands how useful either of them could be!) I don't think they are strong on Korg's radar. If this thread were the FIRST thing that got their attention, I doubt at this point that they could even roll them into the PA4x's first OS...
As the OP's last post points out
it seems that new styles are FAR more on everyone's radar more than features to make better use of the styles we already haveI am always looking for new song styles with the updates.
But the velocity offsets thing is amazing when tied to sounds that change over velocity... drum sounds with three or four layers, bass sounds that dig in more, guitar parts with velocity switching between hard and soft playing. Use your playing strength to offset the style, and the band suddenly starts to sound 'live', and backs off and digs in as needed, in response to how hard YOU are playing. Such a small thing, with such a radical effect...
But unless the forum as a whole starts to pipe up and ask for it, given that Korg have long ignored this idea, your odds of getting it remain slim. And even slimmer on the current model!
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karmathanever
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+1000Dikikeys wrote:Use your playing strength to offset the style, and the band suddenly starts to sound 'live', and backs off and digs in as needed, in response to how hard YOU are playing.
What other arranger has this (real question)? - Is it the Tyros (I can't remember)? I know I've owned an arranger which had left-hand "velocity" control enabling STYLE backing volume control…
Pete
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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Dikikeys
It has been a feature, to one degree or another, on most TOTL and some MOTL Roland arrangers going all the way back to the G1000...
But it really hasn't come into its own until recently, when most drum kits, and a LOT of sounds have multiple velocity splits. Having the volume go up and down with your playing is one thing, but having the drums and other sounds either mostly play the topmost velocity samples when you play hard, or the lower velocity sounds when you play quieter is utterly killer!
The drums (and guitar picking and strumming, for instance) actually sound like they are laying back or digging in. Roland give you plenty of control over exactly how much each Part moves in relation to your playing. And you can even do clever tricks like having parts that ONLY play up to a certain velocity, and other parts that don't play at all until you go past that point. So it's easy to dial in the strength it needs to avoid the loudest samples when you play softly.
About the only way that Korg could improve the Roland system is to allow a user defined 'window' and hold time so that you can decide for yourself how quickly it changes and how long it holds the new velocities... Sometimes I might need to play a few quieter notes without wanting the band to drop out...
But, given how Korg took the Roland Chord Sequencer idea pretty wholesale (after Roland had dropped the idea for nearly ten years), it's possible that simple ideas like this can't really be patented, so there's probably no legal problem with Korg taking this great idea, too..! (BTW, I want to thank Korg for resurrecting the Chord Sequencer idea, without which I sometimes think that Roland might never have brought it back themselves!)
On the whole, the idea of simply offsetting the velocities of a Style Part isn't particularly complicated programming. The only thing to work out is the hold time details. If Korg are looking for the best, most effective bang for their R&D buck, I can think of nothing better and easier. A simple OS addition, with massive implications for bettering the modern arranger...
But it really hasn't come into its own until recently, when most drum kits, and a LOT of sounds have multiple velocity splits. Having the volume go up and down with your playing is one thing, but having the drums and other sounds either mostly play the topmost velocity samples when you play hard, or the lower velocity sounds when you play quieter is utterly killer!
The drums (and guitar picking and strumming, for instance) actually sound like they are laying back or digging in. Roland give you plenty of control over exactly how much each Part moves in relation to your playing. And you can even do clever tricks like having parts that ONLY play up to a certain velocity, and other parts that don't play at all until you go past that point. So it's easy to dial in the strength it needs to avoid the loudest samples when you play softly.
About the only way that Korg could improve the Roland system is to allow a user defined 'window' and hold time so that you can decide for yourself how quickly it changes and how long it holds the new velocities... Sometimes I might need to play a few quieter notes without wanting the band to drop out...
But, given how Korg took the Roland Chord Sequencer idea pretty wholesale (after Roland had dropped the idea for nearly ten years), it's possible that simple ideas like this can't really be patented, so there's probably no legal problem with Korg taking this great idea, too..! (BTW, I want to thank Korg for resurrecting the Chord Sequencer idea, without which I sometimes think that Roland might never have brought it back themselves!)
On the whole, the idea of simply offsetting the velocities of a Style Part isn't particularly complicated programming. The only thing to work out is the hold time details. If Korg are looking for the best, most effective bang for their R&D buck, I can think of nothing better and easier. A simple OS addition, with massive implications for bettering the modern arranger...
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Fransman
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= DELETED,
wrong information, apologies.
wrong information, apologies.
Last edited by Fransman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style.
Play in style.
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siebenhirter
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dynamic Arranger / DrumVariations level
It was G1000 of Roland with its useful feature Dynamic Arranger, which adjusts the volume of the auto-accompaniment according to how loudly or softly you play in the trigger area of the keyboard. But more than this, one could turn the feature on or off for each accompaniment part individually, and specify not only the degree of response to velocity but also the direction.Fransman wrote:It was not in KN1000....
Additional one also could step through four Drum Variations levels by dedicated up/down buttons. This very effective feature switches between rhythm pattern variations for the current Division, further helping to give the backing arrangements a sense of musical variety and spontaneity.
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Dikikeys
Yeah... the Drum Variation was yet another great idea that Roland didn't have the brains to recognize and keep as a regular part of the feature set. If Roland have one serious flaw, it is that they rarely realize when they have a winner... Yamaha rarely drop anything really effective and widely used. Of course, they don't tend to add a whole bunch either, but they rarely take a step back. I think Roland's drop in popularity has come about because, for all the killer things they DO add, you can pretty much guarantee it will be offset by the killer things they drop as well. So they end up spinning their wheels, while everyone else makes a slow but steady progress.
However, the Dynamic Arranger feature in the G1000 wasn't nearly as effective as the modern version, simply because of the fact that the G1000 had no drum sounds or regular Tones with much velocity switching in them (if any, I don't remember any). Simply turning the volume up or down of the exact same sound isn't the same as having the quieter samples play when you play quieter and the loud samples when you play harder. I never enjoyed the feature much when I used the G1000 (for over ten years!), but it is amazingly effective now.
I hope Korg see the benefit of the feature, and introduce it to Korg's feature set. At least, if they do, YOU guys will probably not have anything significant dropped at the same time!
However, the Dynamic Arranger feature in the G1000 wasn't nearly as effective as the modern version, simply because of the fact that the G1000 had no drum sounds or regular Tones with much velocity switching in them (if any, I don't remember any). Simply turning the volume up or down of the exact same sound isn't the same as having the quieter samples play when you play quieter and the loud samples when you play harder. I never enjoyed the feature much when I used the G1000 (for over ten years!), but it is amazingly effective now.
I hope Korg see the benefit of the feature, and introduce it to Korg's feature set. At least, if they do, YOU guys will probably not have anything significant dropped at the same time!
The technics sx kn1000 had a button called dynamic accompaniment and depending on the chords you played and how hard you pressed the keys the accompaniment would react and get more lively or complex including bass rifts and slaps and drum fills etc . Sorry frans if you owned the keyboard for so long and did not discover it . Many people did not which is probably why the feature did not carry over but it was my first real keyboard and I literally rinsed it's functions . I only let it go once the speakers had blown and I then got the Yamaha psr8000 (another great keyboard ). But the kn1000 definitely had this function . I assume the Roland did the same as they were in production at the same time .