Yamaha New Synth with Alien Technology

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:08 pm

I dont know where you found that quote about sa2 voices... But it seems oversimplified, meant to educate non technical people... Seems to me that he is hinting to the functionallity of a megavoice and not to the technollogy that is mainly vellocity switching

But never mind... I am going to stop this discussion... The endresult is what counts and sa2 voices whatever technollogy yamaha is hiding under their hood are the most realistic playable acoustic emulations in hardware keyboards available... There is 22 of them available in Tyros 5 ...

DmitryKo · Post by **DmitryKo** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:54 am

Bachus wrote:I dont know where you found that quote about sa2 voices

It's from Tyros 3 press release:
http://usa.yamaha.com/news_events/piano ... f-realism/

AEM quote is from product description pages of Clavinova CVP-509 and Electone ELS-02C:
http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/musica ... s/cvp-509/
http://sg.yamaha.com/en/products/musica ... e/els-02c/

But it seems oversimplified, meant to educate non technical people

It's a press release, not a programming manual - if you need some technical details, read this blog post:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/sa-and-sa2-yamahas-words/

The point is, if there were elements of physical modelling, Yamaha's PR materials would mention this using similar non-technical terms.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:03 pm

DmitryKo wrote:
Bachus wrote:I dont know where you found that quote about sa2 voices

It's from Tyros 3 press release:
http://usa.yamaha.com/news_events/piano ... f-realism/

AEM quote is from product description pages of Clavinova CVP-509 and Electone ELS-02C:
http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/musica ... s/cvp-509/
http://sg.yamaha.com/en/products/musica ... e/els-02c/

But it seems oversimplified, meant to educate non technical people
It's a press release, not a programming manual - if you need some technical details, read this blog post:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/sa-and-sa2-yamahas-words/

The point is, if there were elements of physical modelling, Yamaha's PR materials would mention this using similar non-technical terms.

I have had both peter baartmans as well as Michel Voncken, both Yamaha´s best demo people confirm this during demonstatrations... They both said there are elements of physical moddeling part of SA2 voices..

So they must have been lying to me?

But then no use to further this discussion, your evidence is overwhelming...

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:57 am

Honestly I would trust Bert Smorenburg over either of them. I don't think they were "lying" exactly but this stuff gets pretty technical and I don't believe either of them have a very strong background in synthesis. Add a little positive bias (they're trying to sell a product and "physical modeling" sounds hip) and I think you're there, pretty much.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:47 pm

I'm afraid I have to agree Bachus - I've read all the links you point to, and more, and can find no mention of physical modelling. SA2 is entirely sample based.

There is clearly AEM - but that's like Supernatural behavioural modelling, used in the rapid selection of sample elements live according to the performance characteristics.

More that one person here has mixed up 'modelling' with 'physical modelling'.

Physical modelling is the mathematical modelling of acoustic instruments - to generate the sound. There are as I'm sure you know many other forms of modelling - from effects modelling to circuit modelling to performance modelling ( far and beyond the method of scripting used in Kontakt that some persist in comparing it with, incorrectly).

In SA2 we do indeed have modelling - but performance / behavioural type modelling.

In any case, two issues strongly suggesting there is no physical modelling taking place include 1) matching the audio characteristics of both samples and physical models, in the same instrument while being performed in real time, would be near on impossible and 2) you're suggesting models that only appeared in the VP1 and it is highly unlikely that that technology appears under the hood on TYROS.

None of this takes away from the stunning and sophisticated nature of SA2 or TYROS (if only Yamaha Synthesis would adopt similar levels) - though - watch this space in NAMM

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:45 am

With NAMM less than two weeks away there are very few rumors and teasers flying around, and it makes me wonder if companies are moving away from teasers, or if it is a sign of a boring NAMM up ahead.
If Yamaha is set to release an entirely new workstation line you'd expect some sort of teaser as they has with the uneventful Reface series. Silence before the storm or is the Montage not ready yet?

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:49 pm

Jan1 wrote:With NAMM less than two weeks away there are very few rumors and teasers flying around, and it makes me wonder if companies are moving away from teasers, or if it is a sign of a boring NAMM up ahead.
If Yamaha is set to release an entirely new workstation line you'd expect some sort of teaser as they has with the uneventful Reface series. Silence before the storm or is the Montage not ready yet?

Casio will have a new arranger .. Thats the last confirmed teaser...

Even rumor at akais facebook page about a possible synth revival

compusic · Post by **compusic** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:45 am

Bachus wrote:
Casio will have a new arranger .. Thats the last confirmed teaser...

Already confirmed, that's 2 models of MZ Series arrangers. In China , Casio even has provided audio recording of the arranger.

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:39 pm

From Keyboard's forum: the new Montage is highlighted at http://www.onlinedigeditions.com/publication/?i=286673&p=224.%20Click%20to%20enlarge%20image.
Apparently it's AWM2 with bigger ROM plus an FM engine and double the polyphony, and a color touchscreen, not quite as revolutionary and alien as some expected it to be.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:56 pm

Let's just recall Richard Devine's bold interview statement:
"This synthesizer has new technology that’s never been implemented before, so it’s totally alien to anything I’ve ever used. I’ve had to spend a few weeks just understanding the architecture of it."

In fact it is no revolution at all, it's just more of the same. And how poor, that it doesn't even include the complete Reface synthesis engines variety (with more voices and preset memory)!

Never trust excessive, artificial hype.

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:37 pm

chilly7 wrote:
afr wrote:my personal feeling

Montage = Motif xf + new piano sample + FM section
Ha-ha-ha.

He got closer than anyone else.

Busch.

Jeff Gibbs · Post by **Jeff Gibbs** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:24 am

From Yamaha forum:
http://www.onlinedigeditions.com/public ... 6673&p=224

Post by **Sharp** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:42 am

Zero Innovation, 100% marketing hype.

afr · Post by **afr** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:26 am

burningbusch wrote:
chilly7 wrote:
afr wrote:my personal feeling

Montage = Motif xf + new piano sample + FM section
Ha-ha-ha.
He got closer than anyone else.

Busch.

The montage has a new 10 layers piano

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:16 am

afr wrote:
burningbusch wrote:
chilly7 wrote: Ha-ha-ha.
He got closer than anyone else.

Busch.
The montage has a new 10 layers piano

I think there might be more to this instrument then the article says..

Awm2 is pretty advanced these days, like said the reface organs where awm2 to, as are many of the newer technollogies... Scm, vrm, sa2 etc etc..

How about studio/vst/daw integration, will the montage function as a 16 chnnel stereo audio interface..

And how much will the arp and pattern tools of the XF have advanced?

Main feature of the instrument however seems to be a new tool to influence sounds...