Exporting Midi From Karma

[Amos922]

Is there a way to export only the midi onto multiple tracks in the DAW from Karma. I would like to have the midi go into different clips in ableton to produce glitch type effects. Is this possible without having to record each individual track?

[QuiRobinez]

sure, you can do this in combi mode or in program mode (local control needs to be set to the value: checked in global mode, to send the midi notes to ableton.

A simple example for using KARMA on other synths or a VST is done in the following way:
- Select a KARMA GE on your Kronos
- Filter everything in the KARMA Filter send tab exept note information
- Create a midi channel and use the I/O to play the Kronos
- in the VST (or other synth) select for the Midi input the Kronos Sound channel
- Arm your first midi channel and when you play now the KARMA midi notes will be played through the VST (you can also record them of course)

i've created an example how to do it, see the screenshot and set it up accordingly, then it works

[Amos922]

Im having a little bit of trouble getting this to work. Are you saying turn local control off or keep it on? Also In theKarma "Miidi Filter CC Offset" Tab in Combi Mode I have everything checked except "GE Notes" for module A, is this what you are saying to do? I also changed the output channel for module A to 01G. In ableton on Midi track 1 I have the External instrument with midi from the kronos and midi to the kronos on channel 1. On midi track two I have Midi from the Kronos.

[QuiRobinez]

Im having a little bit of trouble getting this to work. Are you saying turn local control off or keep it on? Also In theKarma "Miidi Filter CC Offset" Tab in Combi Mode I have everything checked except "GE Notes" for module A, is this what you are saying to do? I also changed the output channel for module A to 01G. In ableton on Midi track 1 I have the External instrument with midi from the kronos and midi to the kronos on channel 1. On midi track two I have Midi from the Kronos.

local control: ON

the karma filter tab, set everything to off, then set GE NOTES to ON

for a correct use of midi in ableton you need to have some basic understanding of midi routing. So the most common way to set it up would be:

- create a combi
- set KARMA module A to midi channel 2
- set KARMA module B to midi channel 3
- set KARMA module C to midi channel 4
- set KARMA module D to midi channel 5

set the timbre thru behind every karma module assignment to OFF

Now you have your keyboard playing on GCH1 and the KARMA engines are sending notes (use the EXT or BTH setting in your combi per timbre) on midi channel 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Now in ableton live, set your midi channel to the kronos on midi channel 1, so that you can play the karma chords
in ableton live create the channels as above with the corresponding vsts' or other hardware synths that you want to use KARMA for.
Set the correct input channel for each channel, so the monitor of that input channel in ableton live should listen to channel 2 for the first VST, channel 3 for the second VST, etc....

Now press record in ableton live and play chords on your first midi channel (the channel 1), on midi channel 2, 3, 4 and 5 will now the karma midi information be recorded for your vsts, or other hardware.

If you have no idea what i'm talking about, then it's adviseable to first watch the KARMA tutorials, and then watch some basic Ableton Live Midi routing tutorials on youtube.

That should get your started.

If you want the really easy way, then just hit the kronos program button, select a program with a KARMA pattern you like and assign everything exactly as in the screenshot in ableton live.

As long as you are sending out GE notes and have local control set to ON then it should work.

[Amos922]

lol I think I have a handle on it now. I think I was overthinking it because I was trying to work with different clips on the same column in ableton, but I have it working now. Now I just have to figure out how to use different sounds from Massive, each in the same column of clips and do this same thing. Right now I have the clips triggering randomly in a column and each clip has a different Karma module effecting it but I want each clip to have a different sound. I definitely appreciate your help and patience man!

[QuiRobinez]

lol I think I have a handle on it now. I think I was overthinking it because I was trying to work with different clips on the same column in ableton, but I have it working now. Now I just have to figure out how to use different sounds from Massive, each in the same column of clips and do this same thing. Right now I have the clips triggering randomly in a column and each clip has a different Karma module effecting it but I want each clip to have a different sound. I definitely appreciate your help and patience man!

that's not how ableton works, in abletons workflow each column is an instrument with one sound. The clips are just different patterns for that sound in a column. Theoretically you could add a program change in each clip to change the sound, but most people use it the standard way.

The standard way of working with ableton is that you select your sounds per column, and then you can play all kind of patterns with those sound and record them as clips. Then the fun part starts, you can record your improvisation by just clicking and combining clips together to sculpt your song or live performance. Ableton can record anything you do, so your song is automatically created during your performance.

One really important thing to keep in mind is that in a column only one clip can be active at the same time.

Now with this basic knowledge you can see in the video below how you can use those clips by combining them. In the video i practice one of my live sets where in this case i created a live remix mashup from two trance classics from the nineties.

Every column in this video points to VST or to a Kronos Timbre in a combi. All the patterns are created as clips in the columns. So then it's just a matter of pressing play and combining clips together to create the mashup in realtime.

Hope this clarifies the workflow of ableton a little bit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/k4H_rHTA_0I" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Amos922]

Here is a video essentially showing what I am trying to do with the Karma. In the video he used audio clips from processed audio he created with the access virus. He's using various sounds and having them trigger randomly. Basically what I was trying to figure out was if there was a way to do this same thing with midi while using karma. I thought about the program change command but I see what ur saying, I'm probably gonna just have to record the audio and do it the same way he did it to get different sounds in the same column. He doesn't talk much about what he did to get the clips he just says that he created tem in the access virus and drags them over. I was simply trying to avoid doing this by having random karma on random clips with random sounds. http://youtu.be/S1NZQIQ-XLc

[QuiRobinez]

Here is a video essentially showing what I am trying to do with the Karma. In the video he used audio clips from processed audio he created with the access virus. He's using various sounds and having them trigger randomly. Basically what I was trying to figure out was if there was a way to do this same thing with midi while using karma. I thought about the program change command but I see what ur saying, I'm probably gonna just have to record the audio and do it the same way he did it to get different sounds in the same column. He doesn't talk much about what he did to get the clips he just says that he created tem in the access virus and drags them over. I was simply trying to avoid doing this by having random karma on random clips with random sounds. http://youtu.be/S1NZQIQ-XLc

that's a totally different question, but it can be done on a single program in the kronos, what you can't do is sending out notes from karma to different clips. Although in theory you can create a M4L device in ableton that captures notes and redistributes this randomly to clips (which wouldn't make any sense unless these are one shot audio samples like the example you posted).

In the video you are refering to a trick is used where randomly on every 16th note a clip is selected that contains a short one shot sample. So that makes the glitch sound.

If you want to do something similar with KARMA in the kronos you have two options:
Option 1:
- create a multisample with different samples per note
- create a hd 1 program that uses that multisample
- assign a KARMA GE with Random functionality and limit the note range to the range of your samples

now you have something comparable

Option 2:
- create a wave sequence
- in each step set a sample that you want to use
- in the modifier set that next step is based on the note value
- assign a KARMA pattern to it.

Both methods will work for creating glitch sounds on the kronos.

But if you have ableton i would use the functionality of ableton for this.
It's so easy to do when you understand ableton.

In that case:
- create an audio column
- select a program from the kronos that you want to sample in ableton
- press record in ableton
- hit the note for that clip that you want to record
- select another program from the kronos
- go to the next clip in ableton
- hit record in ableton
- play a note from the kronos and record that sample in the clip
- etc

- Now set up the ableton column launch to random on 16th beats and there is your kronos glitch sound effect.

You can do this within a minute to create any pattern you want in ableton.


There are also great glitch effects that you can use, for instance Sugar bytes effectrix on the iPad is a great addon to the kronos, you can instantly create insane kind of glitch effects in realtime by routing your audio through the iPad effect. (although i have to admit that this is not easy to setup in a kronos and requires quite some experience and a 4 port audio setup in your daw, so probably not may people will understand how to do this. But it can be done if you route the default audio output of the kronos to the 2 seperate audio outs and all internal audio through the L/R system to the iPad.)

Another fantastic VST is Izotope Stutter Edit which was developed in collaboration with BT. It's one of the best Glitch plugins that i know off.

So lots of possibilities to create such kinds of things. The best way to start with is to know your DAW, ableton can do a lot if you are producing music, so definitely watch some of the ableton YouTube tutorials, it's worth the time.

[Amos922]

Sorry if I wasn't articulating the question properly, but yea this is essentially what I was trying to do. I think you gave me the answer as well! I have a tendency to overthink things and I was adding my own idea on top of the concept I was trying to ask in my questioning lol appreciate te help man!

[Amos922]

One last question: so for vsts this would not be possible to do then right since they are midi? Would I have to record their output to audio on another track and record into the clips?

[QuiRobinez]

One last question: so for vsts this would not be possible to do then right since they are midi? Would I have to record their output to audio on another track and record into the clips?

just hit a note of the vst you want to use and render the midi clip to an audio clip, then you can use that audio clip.

if you want to use midi then:
- use the ableton SIMPLER vst, then you add the samples there to the note trigger
- then create a clip with note C0
- then create a clip with C#0
- then create a clip with D0
- etc....

(or other note values based on the note value per sample cell.)

Now set the launch to randomize based on 16th notes and then it will randomly select on of the samples in that simpler.