Rotary Effekt in PaX4

GerdH · Post by **GerdH** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:28 pm

There are many organs in Pax4, but not many are with the Rotary.

Can you subsequently change?

Greeting

Gerd

Bernie9 · Post by **Bernie9** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:03 pm

Choose "Drawbars" in organs, and make anything you want.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:13 am

Many of the organs in PA4X (and its predecessors) use multisamples with the Rotary built in.

But, as Bernie says, the best way to get that "B3" and "Leslie" emulation is to use the "DRAWBARS" sound.

PA4X's Tonewheel organ and Rotary effect is their best so far (in their arrangers).

Cheers

Pete

mintjamman · Post by **mintjamman** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:38 am

Once some of the immediate issues with the OS are ironed out I wish Korg would revisit the Rotary simulator and attend to the fast speed. No matter how its set up the fast speed lacks realism. But it sounds great via my Ventilator.

Bernie9 · Post by **Bernie9** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:47 am

I am an old B3 player and agree the Vent is tops at Leslie sim. I am trying to get along with less gear, but sound is paramount. I sometimes wonder if we are just pleasing ourselves, and does the audience care or know the difference. As is, the Pa4x is good compared with others except maybe the Roland BK-9.

Bernie

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:22 am

I guess this is so seriously in the ears of the beholder.

I find the Roland VR09 absolutely superb for both B3 sounds and Leslie emulation - like BK-9 (but BK-9 is not an arranger I would like).
Nord is not so good - fast Leslie when playing higher notes is unbearable for me.

PA4X is now pretty darn good - haven't been too happy with previous models. The Rotary is fully configurable too.

There is only one small bug on the PA4X regarding the DRAWBARS sound:-
If you enable harmonic percussion and then play it with any style with "ensemble" ON the harmonic percussion becomes permanently disabled until you reboot.
So, don't use "Ensemble" when playing the DRAWBAR organ!!!! (for now anyway)
Other than that I can reproduce all the B3/Leslie sounds I need - and yes, I am fanatical about it.
I can even get the PA4X DRAWBAR sound to match the Kronos CX3 in most cases!!!!

Cheers

Pete

Bernie9 · Post by **Bernie9** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:45 pm

Thanks for the good info Pete. I agree with you about the BK-9. The Leslie was the only thing I liked and sold it to buy the PA4X. I haven't delved too much into the drawbars, but will now. I will try and get some good settings and haul out my Vent if need be.

Pete

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:09 am

Hi Bernie

Heard a lot of great things about the Vent - would love to be able to try one - might sniff around the local stores but we are very limited here.
I have been waiting anxiously (for years!) for a reasonable "B3/Leslie" setup on Korg arrangers. I am quite happy now with the PA4X - think it is a vast improvement and definitely acceptable (certainly heaps better than the Kurzweil PC3-series "KB3"!!!).
On the PA4X, I would have liked a more direct way of switching ON/OFF the C1-C3/V1-V3 but other than that (and that silly little bug) I am getting the sound I want.
I can now get the PA4X to "match" most of what my VR09 can do in that regard.

(Still cannot stand the "V-organs" on the PA4X - velocity controlled fast/slow Leslie multisamples - they are so unusable by anyone who loves that tonewheel/rotary classic sound)

My colleague recently bought the Hammond SK1 but I think the VR09 is equally as good, if not better in terms of a "stage-live" keyboard with all its SuperNatural sounds and editing facilities (pity it's only available in 61-note) - his SK1 sounds nice but is limited.

Would love to hear your views on the PA4X and Vent!!!

Cheers

Pete

Bernie9 · Post by **Bernie9** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:17 am

Hi Pete

I will try the Vent on the Pa4X when my schedule clears a bit.

Bernie

mintjamman · Post by **mintjamman** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:43 am

Friend of mine has the VR-09 and to my ears in the mid-top range it sounds like a box of whistles, leslie effect is wishy washy on fast.

The Pa4x with the Vent on is a whole new ball game, but at 3000 GDP why should we be paying out more to get a better leslie sim ???

For all intents and purposes the organs are liveable especially via the Vent and imho way better than the VR-09 but then again if I need great Hammond sounds with the tactile playing surface then I will either use my Crumar Mojo and 145 or one of my Hammond A100s and get the job done.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:27 pm

Possibly something wrong with that VR09 or what it was played through.
I have had the Nord Stage 2 and VR09 together in my studio and you can barely tell them apart except the Nord high-end with Leslie FX becomes less authentic plus the Nord does not emulate the B3 accurately regarding harmonics and drawbar combinations.

Would love to try a Vent with my PA4X and VR09

mstodola · Post by **mstodola** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:51 pm

Pete --- you convinced me to do it. The Vent is expensive, but I ordered one from Sweetwater. At least if I don't like it I can return it.

Mitch

mstodola · Post by **mstodola** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:46 pm

Just received my Vent. It sounds great. Much better than the weird slow leslie to instant fast vibrato that is on most the Pa4x organs. It make the organs useful. I didn't change the leslie settings on the Pa4x. I like the dual leslie sound when slow. In fast mode the Vent takes over and I don't notice the slow leslie of the Pa4x organ. Jimmy is one of my favorites. I'm not an organ conosur, like Pete, I just try to copy that which pleases me in reference to the songs I'm trying to copy.

I love the organs on the PC3/PC3K and their variety and ability to be tweaked in all aspects. You can pick it's general brightness, it's level of leaky capacitors, it's level of noisy contacts... just to mention a few. Kurzweil did their homework. The leslies emulations are at least able to be tweaked. But the PC3 is not an arranger.

I've heard a real B3 with leslie 122 cabinet combo directly compared to the KB3 side by side, and I could barely tell any difference. The difference between two analog B3's with their variances of capacitors and inductors has as much difference.

I think the leslie is what people are really talking about when they talk B3 organs and the Vent seems to be a very good emulation. It screams, and makes leslie cabinet noises and distortions. I think this is what people are after. Not a new organ sound.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:40 pm

Hi Mitch

You are lucky to be able to "return" things if you don't like them - we don't have that luxury here.

It is fascinating how we all have different "needs" and hear things "differently".
One of the reasons I sold my PC3 because I completely disliked the KB3 and related emulation - there was no "bottom-end" and I could cope with its rotary.
One of the nicest B3/Leslie emulations I have owned was the Creamware 4000 module.

I very much like my Kronos CX3 - very flexible and authentic, however my favourite to date is my Roland VR09 (fabulous for stage performance) - I played and recorded this together with a friend's Nord Stage 2 but the Roland won me over out of those two keyboards.
It is all very personal and so I know there is no argument. In fact no two Hammond B3s actually sound alike anyway.

That leaves me now wondering how I can get to hear the Vent with my PA4X - your feedback is very interesting - any possible chance you could make a small MP3 recording for us? Perhaps with no Rotary on the PA4X - just the Vent.

Thanks for your feedback

Cheers

Pete

mstodola · Post by **mstodola** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:05 pm

Hi Pete,
I'm not arguing either. I'm just chiming in. Any analog instrument is going to be different unit to unit. Analog synthesizers are the same way. That's what is so special about digital... it's repeatable.

The SD rant should not of happened. But if it helps others to realize that it is really important to unplug the unit before SD installation, mission was accomplished.

I'm rather new to playing organs. But the leslie emulation does seems to be the magic element. There is more than the leslie that the Vent emulates. It seems to also get the cabinet, the noises, and the way a tube amp and speaker distorts correct. The distortion in a Boss RT20 is very irritating even though the rotating element seems to work fairly well.

The Pa4x seems to produce pleasing emulations. You seem to know a lot more about organs than I do. Can I ask, what is being emulated when (for example) the Jimmy organ goes from fast to slow, and slow to fast? Is that the tremolo or chorus that they are emulating? It doesn't switch until I lift my hand from the keybed and play the next note. It doesn't seem very smooth. Is that realistic to a B3?