Kind of an introductory thread as well, but since picking this up on Monday, I've read some pretty terrifying stuff on here that makes me question my purchase and whether I've bought a complete dog of a machine!
To give some background, I have an Ableton Push 2-based setup but find something desperately un-musical about the computer. I can't really explain it but felt when I was using my RM1X and hardware based setup, I spent more time writing music whereas I now seem to spend a lot of it staring at a black session wondering what the hell to do next.
Don't get me wrong - no question Ableton pus NI Komplete gives me huge amount of power but I thin kI'm coming around to it being an environment I want to take an idea once I've flashed it out a bit.
So with that in mind, I looked at cheap sampling sequencers I could mess about with on the sofa to get ideas going. Turns out that means an ES2 or an SP404sx before you get up to OP1 price or >gasp< Octatrack.
Reading here put me off the 'tribe so I got the 404. I LOVE that machine and it's immediacy but had to return it. The lack of meaningful pitch control and the comedically bad Pattern Sequencer meant it was only ever going to be a toy for me.
So by process of elimination I've been left with the ES2. I sort of immediately hated it because of all the bad chat on here and elsewhere online but thought I'd give it a go and I have to say, so far, it seems much more complete than the 404.
It's definitely got some things that are annoying:
1) Sample management
2) Dementia-spec memory
3) Menu diving
4) Some impenetrable functions (took me all night to suss out Time Slice)
But, and I suspect this is critical, having not been exposed to any previous models, I can see this really letting me get an idea off the ground before integrating it with my bigger setup.
I've spent the last couple of evenings lying on the sofa whilst the OH watches TV and have tried to recreate a couple of ideas I did on the desktop as an experiment to get my head round it. Worked really well and the sound is good.
I'd love a bit more sample memory but I think I can live with the limits.
My only worry is that something will rear it's head after my exchange window is closed that makes me hate it.
If you've read this far, congrats, but is there anything really showstopping I should be looking for beyond what I've mentioned?
Thanks, and looking forward to contributing to the forum if I can.
I quite like my ES2!
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
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Spheric El
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:32 pm
- Location: Liverpool
It indeed is. E2S is inferior or barely equal to the more than 10 years older ESX in most areas and where it is superior, the feature isn't really all that great depending on usecase. (Battery power, pads, 16 parts free choosable, Ableton import, some effects, LEDs, overall sound quality, paraphony).But, and I suspect this is critical, having not been exposed to any previous models
Re: I quite like my ES2!
That was my MO with the ESX/EMX, you don't need batteries for sofa useDisastrous wrote:I've spent the last couple of evenings lying on the sofa whilst the OH watches TV
I didn't care for the new tribes but I'm too used to the first two generations and didn't like a lot of the changes, Sample management in particular, I have no Idea how they managed to make it worse.....
Anyway, hope it works for you!
Korg gear I own:
electribes EA-1,ER-1,2x ES-1, EMX-1SD, ESX-1SD
DW 8000, Wavestation SR, KP3, Volca Beats, Keys MS 2000 R
Korg gear I've used extensively:
M1, Triton Pro-x 88, SG-1D, NanoPad, NanoKontrol
electribes EA-1,ER-1,2x ES-1, EMX-1SD, ESX-1SD
DW 8000, Wavestation SR, KP3, Volca Beats, Keys MS 2000 R
Korg gear I've used extensively:
M1, Triton Pro-x 88, SG-1D, NanoPad, NanoKontrol
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Disastrous
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 am
That's interesting, and I can see how annoying it would be for existing owners if the game hasn't really been moved on at all and its effectively just a repackaging and marketing exercise._INTER_ wrote:It indeed is. E2S is inferior or barely equal to the more than 10 years older ESX in most areas and where it is superior, the feature isn't really all that great depending on usecase. (Battery power, pads, 16 parts free choosable, Ableton import, some effects, LEDs, overall sound quality, paraphony).But, and I suspect this is critical, having not been exposed to any previous models
I guess it's a blessing not having used an older one, but I still hope there are t any horrible shocks waiting for me.
That said, it really does come down to this or the 404 (without going secondhand) as everything else is a price bracket up. And the 404 just isn't enough of a production tool for me. Have computers become so ubiquitous that hardware is just an afterthought? Seems a shame if so.
Quite aside from the immediacy and tactility of 'playing' an electronic instrument versus playing a laptop, the ever-present email alerts, Facebook and Internet on even my iPad have a hugely detrimental effect on my music.
Last night I sat with this thing making noises for three hours straight without checking my messages. That would simply not have happened with Gadget or an equivalent. I started off playing guitar in a rock band so it's important for me to separate my music from 'real life'. If I'm doing music, I need to be just doing music and hardware seems to help with that.
As such, I really hope this turns out to be a go-anywhere device that really gets me going again creatively as again, perhaps due to my rock band beginnings, the studio is somewhere I go to record and finish things I've already written. The writing happens away from the studio.
While I am glad you are enjoying your electribe I find it a lame excuse to say you can't make music on computing devices because you get distracted!
Turn off your notifications it's not that hard!
I use my iPad ALL the time to make music, along in its Alesis io dock I love it it is the most flexible and user friendly hardware sound module I have used!
And I don't leave the gui of my synth apps that's it.
Turn off your notifications it's not that hard!
I use my iPad ALL the time to make music, along in its Alesis io dock I love it it is the most flexible and user friendly hardware sound module I have used!
And I don't leave the gui of my synth apps that's it.
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Disastrous
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 am
Who's making excuses?jbvdb493 wrote:While I am glad you are enjoying your electribe I find it a lame excuse to say you can't make music on computing devices because you get distracted!
Turn off your notifications it's not that hard!
I use my iPad ALL the time to make music, along in its Alesis io dock I love it it is the most flexible and user friendly hardware sound module I have used!
And I don't leave the gui of my synth apps that's it.
I just don't like writing music on the computer! I'm glad you love making music on your iPad but to me, it's a weapon of mass distraction. I won't argue with how powerful they are in comparison but the fact is, if I'm not enjoying using them, I won't use them and music won't get written.
That's the only meaningful currency, as far as I'm concerned.
I think Live and Pro Tools are great, and they're where everything I write ends up, eventually. But I just don't find them creatively stimulating.
I've come to realise that for me, the computer is somewhere to finish a track, not to start one. The iPad will only ever be a toy I use sporadically I'm afraid. Not to hate on them at all, but give me an iPad and you will lose me to YouTube and wiki and Korg forums (as I'm typing this now).
I struggle with the infinite possibilities computers give you and actually find I'm more creative within the constraints of hardware.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Not excuses, just preferences.
The same with me. I prefer to make some initial material on hardware, does not mean I could not do it in daw, it just doesn't inspire me as much as hardware. On the other hand I could not acomplish an entire track with no software. I have both emx1 and e2, I like their workflow, but they have limits, sometimes I don't even use theirs sound but just transfer midi therefore using of software gives me some flexibility that I need.
Korg R3, EMX1, volca keys, minikp 2, electribe 2, prologue, karp oddy, dns 12, all ios apps.
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Spheric El
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:32 pm
- Location: Liverpool
Yes can completely understand the distraction with a comp.
E2 and OP1 are perfect as creative sketchpad.
its no exuse.OP has realised what works for THEM.
If I'm giving up an addictive drug ,like nicotine, I'm not going to hang out with some old smoking buddies.I find a lot of distracting house keeping with a PC/software process, distractions like trying different VSTs.
E2 and OP1 are perfect as creative sketchpad.
its no exuse.OP has realised what works for THEM.
If I'm giving up an addictive drug ,like nicotine, I'm not going to hang out with some old smoking buddies.I find a lot of distracting house keeping with a PC/software process, distractions like trying different VSTs.
I'm new to the ES2 as well, and enjoy it thoroughly, despite the odd quirk I have to work around.
I highly recommend doing this to improve your experinece... Apply a thin strip of artist tape above trigger pad 1 to 8 and below trigger pad 9 to 16 and write in the short cut commands. These save a huge amount of time for me not having to use the menu for most of the functions I need quick access to.
re: previous ESX users not gelling with it, I'm sure their complaints are justified. As a non electribe user, I've tinkered with both the ESX and ES2 before purchasing one. I throught the ES2 was much more intuitive to use. It really doesn't take me long to create on the ES2 what is in my head.
I highly recommend doing this to improve your experinece... Apply a thin strip of artist tape above trigger pad 1 to 8 and below trigger pad 9 to 16 and write in the short cut commands. These save a huge amount of time for me not having to use the menu for most of the functions I need quick access to.
re: previous ESX users not gelling with it, I'm sure their complaints are justified. As a non electribe user, I've tinkered with both the ESX and ES2 before purchasing one. I throught the ES2 was much more intuitive to use. It really doesn't take me long to create on the ES2 what is in my head.
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Disastrous
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 am
Sadly, I think I may have been a bit keen with my OP. 
I've decided to sell the ES2. I'm a bit disappointed as it is *so* close to being really really good but it just falls short on a few areas that mean I just don't use it.
Sampling - it's a sampler and the sampling procedure is annoyingly fiddly. My 404 was streets ahead for instant results that actually encouraged you to use it. I find myself intending to sample x, y or z into the ES2 and then putting it off forever as it's a chore. Couple that with the silly memory restrictions and card horseplay needed to save multiple sample sets, I just can't be bothered.
Sequencing - I LOVE how the sequencer works. It's quick and easy and gives great results. I love the mapping of samples chromatically and I love the groove templates. So WHY NO MIDI THRU??? It's infuriating trying to use it with external gear. I want to be able to connect a keyboard and play my external modules through it. It's such a basic requirement. The Circuit doesn't do this either of course, but then neither is it a 16 track MIDI sequencer.
Slice Mode - massively missed opportunity. If that allowed you to map slices to pads like an MPC it would be brilliant. As it is, all it really does it let you retime a sample, albeit in a worse-sounding way than any computer can do.
And that is the sum-total of my complaints. And they all feel soooo fixable as well. But they just add up to make a machine I'm not gelling with.
To decide for sure, I set myself a challenge last nigh: to unplug the RM1X and put the Electribe at the hub of my setup and try and make a track. After an hour and a half of pissing about with MIDI, I recreated the work in 10 mins on the RM1X.
In some ways I'll really miss the machine. It was great at the end of MIDI chain for driving the Microbrute and Volca via sync, and the in-built FX and touchpad were ace.
But I think it's really designed to be a self-contained box, rather than something portable that slots happily into a bigger setup (see Circuit for details)...A shame, but it's boxed up and I've just ordered a 404sx like the one I got rid off :rolleyes:
Feel a bit sad though - so close but just not quite.
I've decided to sell the ES2. I'm a bit disappointed as it is *so* close to being really really good but it just falls short on a few areas that mean I just don't use it.
Sampling - it's a sampler and the sampling procedure is annoyingly fiddly. My 404 was streets ahead for instant results that actually encouraged you to use it. I find myself intending to sample x, y or z into the ES2 and then putting it off forever as it's a chore. Couple that with the silly memory restrictions and card horseplay needed to save multiple sample sets, I just can't be bothered.
Sequencing - I LOVE how the sequencer works. It's quick and easy and gives great results. I love the mapping of samples chromatically and I love the groove templates. So WHY NO MIDI THRU??? It's infuriating trying to use it with external gear. I want to be able to connect a keyboard and play my external modules through it. It's such a basic requirement. The Circuit doesn't do this either of course, but then neither is it a 16 track MIDI sequencer.
Slice Mode - massively missed opportunity. If that allowed you to map slices to pads like an MPC it would be brilliant. As it is, all it really does it let you retime a sample, albeit in a worse-sounding way than any computer can do.
And that is the sum-total of my complaints. And they all feel soooo fixable as well. But they just add up to make a machine I'm not gelling with.
To decide for sure, I set myself a challenge last nigh: to unplug the RM1X and put the Electribe at the hub of my setup and try and make a track. After an hour and a half of pissing about with MIDI, I recreated the work in 10 mins on the RM1X.
In some ways I'll really miss the machine. It was great at the end of MIDI chain for driving the Microbrute and Volca via sync, and the in-built FX and touchpad were ace.
But I think it's really designed to be a self-contained box, rather than something portable that slots happily into a bigger setup (see Circuit for details)...A shame, but it's boxed up and I've just ordered a 404sx like the one I got rid off :rolleyes:
Feel a bit sad though - so close but just not quite.
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WestLondoner
- Junior Member
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:32 pm
Hi Disastrous, I'm fully with you on your sentiments as regards dedicated hardware composing versus computer composing: "Quite aside from the immediacy and tactility of 'playing' an electronic instrument versus playing a laptop, the ever-present email alerts, Facebook and Internet on even my iPad have a hugely detrimental effect on my music. "
So true.
Even still, methinks you shouldn't give up so easily on the ES2, particularly as you seemed to enjoy working on it, despite its limitations! I wouldn't mind that so many people have raised various objections to it at all, if you can still do some good on it.
Now then, after lusting over it for months, my heart took capture of my wallet, and the result was - that I've finally bought an Octatrack (almost called it an 'Octatribe' lol), two days ago, and believe me, I have done absolutely nothing creative with it yet, except get to learn how about 10% of its immense number of functions work!
Its manual is clearly written by a genius, it's all over the place and God help anyone with an IQ of less than 120, in trying to make worthwhile sense of it. It's an intelligence test in its own right, just to understand all that the manual is trying to communicate.
They don't even provide a glossary for all the technical terms used throughout - such as "static machine", "flex machine" "trigs" etc etc. they just cross refer to such terms throughout the manual as if you do know what they're on about.
Anyway, my point is great as the Octatrack inevitably is, it's an incredibly daunting process just to do anything worthwhile with it, in the many weeks which follow new ownership. And it's not as if the manual has a section on how you can use it to replace your E2S/ESX1SD either. You basically just have to 'feel' your way, and after a few months, apparently you cover just about enough ground to be able to half use the thing to its immense potential. That is, IF you have the time required even to learn to half use the thing.
On that note, perhaps some kind soul who has several hours to spare could post an "Idiots guide to making great music on the Octatrack when you're coming straight from the Electribes".
Take Cuckoo's videos - he's no doubt some half crazed genius too, but that means I find his youtube videos are about as 'all over the place' as the manual itself! (hence the charge of his being a befuddled genius - who is likely left to be best understood by the few other geniuses of this world)
So... if you still have the E2s, please consider making the most of it, before turning to the auction site.
HTH
PS if anyone has, indeed, any tips on how best to fast track learning to use the Octatrack, when you're totally at peace with the way Electribes work, then I'm all eyes. Thank you!
So true.
Even still, methinks you shouldn't give up so easily on the ES2, particularly as you seemed to enjoy working on it, despite its limitations! I wouldn't mind that so many people have raised various objections to it at all, if you can still do some good on it.
Now then, after lusting over it for months, my heart took capture of my wallet, and the result was - that I've finally bought an Octatrack (almost called it an 'Octatribe' lol), two days ago, and believe me, I have done absolutely nothing creative with it yet, except get to learn how about 10% of its immense number of functions work!
Its manual is clearly written by a genius, it's all over the place and God help anyone with an IQ of less than 120, in trying to make worthwhile sense of it. It's an intelligence test in its own right, just to understand all that the manual is trying to communicate.
They don't even provide a glossary for all the technical terms used throughout - such as "static machine", "flex machine" "trigs" etc etc. they just cross refer to such terms throughout the manual as if you do know what they're on about.
Anyway, my point is great as the Octatrack inevitably is, it's an incredibly daunting process just to do anything worthwhile with it, in the many weeks which follow new ownership. And it's not as if the manual has a section on how you can use it to replace your E2S/ESX1SD either. You basically just have to 'feel' your way, and after a few months, apparently you cover just about enough ground to be able to half use the thing to its immense potential. That is, IF you have the time required even to learn to half use the thing.
On that note, perhaps some kind soul who has several hours to spare could post an "Idiots guide to making great music on the Octatrack when you're coming straight from the Electribes".
Take Cuckoo's videos - he's no doubt some half crazed genius too, but that means I find his youtube videos are about as 'all over the place' as the manual itself! (hence the charge of his being a befuddled genius - who is likely left to be best understood by the few other geniuses of this world)
So... if you still have the E2s, please consider making the most of it, before turning to the auction site.
HTH
PS if anyone has, indeed, any tips on how best to fast track learning to use the Octatrack, when you're totally at peace with the way Electribes work, then I'm all eyes. Thank you!
Sep 2016: just opened a soundcloud a/c: https://soundcloud.com/user-793524974/
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Disastrous
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 am
Weirdly enough, I couldn't agree more on the OT!
I have lusted after one for ages and read a lot about people struggling with 'their' way of doing things, just as you describe.
I finally had a go one for an admittedly brief period recently and couldn't get my head around it all. I remain impressed by them and am more than convinced by what a skilled user can achieve with one, but if I'm honest with myself, I'm too lazy to meet it halfway, and would likely just fire up Ableton for an easy life...
Conversely, I loved the 'tribe initially, because it felt like I was getting good results with it, yet had loads more depth to uncover. I'd figured out little tricks like using the roller FX to give me 32nds and was loving it. Sadly, as my skill with it has increased, I've got the urge to integrate it more with the rest of my studio and this is what has let me down.
I still believe there's a great machine in there, if Korg just made a handful of tweaks to open up it's potential. I'm even annoyed at myself typing this as I generally believe limitations are a good thing for inspiring creativity, but I just feel Korg would have almost been better leaving out some features, rather than implementing them in a way that just lacks...
Who knows, if it doesn't sell at a decent price I'll probably keep it around and see if I can find a way to work with it.
Incidentally, if you find the OT a pain, I can highly recommend Circuit. It's an object lesson in making hardware intuitive, inspiring and downright musical. The way Novation have evolved the product in line with user responses has blown me away. The bar is set high!
I have lusted after one for ages and read a lot about people struggling with 'their' way of doing things, just as you describe.
I finally had a go one for an admittedly brief period recently and couldn't get my head around it all. I remain impressed by them and am more than convinced by what a skilled user can achieve with one, but if I'm honest with myself, I'm too lazy to meet it halfway, and would likely just fire up Ableton for an easy life...
Conversely, I loved the 'tribe initially, because it felt like I was getting good results with it, yet had loads more depth to uncover. I'd figured out little tricks like using the roller FX to give me 32nds and was loving it. Sadly, as my skill with it has increased, I've got the urge to integrate it more with the rest of my studio and this is what has let me down.
I still believe there's a great machine in there, if Korg just made a handful of tweaks to open up it's potential. I'm even annoyed at myself typing this as I generally believe limitations are a good thing for inspiring creativity, but I just feel Korg would have almost been better leaving out some features, rather than implementing them in a way that just lacks...
Who knows, if it doesn't sell at a decent price I'll probably keep it around and see if I can find a way to work with it.
Incidentally, if you find the OT a pain, I can highly recommend Circuit. It's an object lesson in making hardware intuitive, inspiring and downright musical. The way Novation have evolved the product in line with user responses has blown me away. The bar is set high!
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1_inch_punch
- Senior Member
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:17 am
owner of ES2 - circuit - SP404 (original)
You mention sampling is a chore.
From vinyl it's exactly the same 'chore" for my ES2 and SP404.
More detail required.
"Couple that with the silly memory restrictions and card horseplay needed to save multiple sample sets, I just can't be bothered...."
You later praise the Circuit?
That means - to me - you havent swapped samples via the web interface.... wait until you encounter *that* horseplay.
I like all my 3 devices and they sit beside each other and happily chirp away. But they are completely different girls.
Circuit, she has much less limited sample memory - you need web connection to change her samples.
She has sampleflip which is nice for her - but I end up sampling the loop from her into ES2 anyway because I can timeslice and modulate that beat in ways Circuit can't. Every time I make a percussion beat it's always "but if i drag it into the E2 I can..."
And that global filter knob... yeesh - I dont dare touch it for fear of participating in a 20th century cliche.
No groove template
No part panning (!)
She doesnt have Midi thru either - and of the midi she does have it's two channels and 4 notes of a 3rd.
There's no exporting audio from her - no audio in to effect nor audio thru...
She is a different girl and a keeper. Better?
You won't convince me.
If the ES2 doesnt work for you its best to sell and move on. But if you are going to compare its weaknesses I think you need to be fairer.
Long time users of the ES2 dont need to be reminded of its weaknesses - we live with them every day.
You mention sampling is a chore.
From vinyl it's exactly the same 'chore" for my ES2 and SP404.
More detail required.
"Couple that with the silly memory restrictions and card horseplay needed to save multiple sample sets, I just can't be bothered...."
You later praise the Circuit?
That means - to me - you havent swapped samples via the web interface.... wait until you encounter *that* horseplay.
I like all my 3 devices and they sit beside each other and happily chirp away. But they are completely different girls.
Circuit, she has much less limited sample memory - you need web connection to change her samples.
She has sampleflip which is nice for her - but I end up sampling the loop from her into ES2 anyway because I can timeslice and modulate that beat in ways Circuit can't. Every time I make a percussion beat it's always "but if i drag it into the E2 I can..."
And that global filter knob... yeesh - I dont dare touch it for fear of participating in a 20th century cliche.
No groove template
No part panning (!)
She doesnt have Midi thru either - and of the midi she does have it's two channels and 4 notes of a 3rd.
There's no exporting audio from her - no audio in to effect nor audio thru...
She is a different girl and a keeper. Better?
You won't convince me.
If the ES2 doesnt work for you its best to sell and move on. But if you are going to compare its weaknesses I think you need to be fairer.
Long time users of the ES2 dont need to be reminded of its weaknesses - we live with them every day.
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Disastrous
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 am
Interesting points. I thought I was being very fair though - I even mentioned earlier that I hate the 'Korg bashing' and negativity and mentioned several of the features that I absolutely love about it, such as the groove templates and FX.1_inch_punch wrote:owner of ES2 - circuit - SP404 (original)
You mention sampling is a chore.
From vinyl it's exactly the same 'chore" for my ES2 and SP404.
More detail required.
"Couple that with the silly memory restrictions and card horseplay needed to save multiple sample sets, I just can't be bothered...."
You later praise the Circuit?
That means - to me - you havent swapped samples via the web interface.... wait until you encounter *that* horseplay.
I like all my 3 devices and they sit beside each other and happily chirp away. But they are completely different girls.
Circuit, she has much less limited sample memory - you need web connection to change her samples.
She has sampleflip which is nice for her - but I end up sampling the loop from her into ES2 anyway because I can timeslice and modulate that beat in ways Circuit can't. Every time I make a percussion beat it's always "but if i drag it into the E2 I can..."
And that global filter knob... yeesh - I dont dare touch it for fear of participating in a 20th century cliche.
No groove template
No part panning (!)
She doesnt have Midi thru either - and of the midi she does have it's two channels and 4 notes of a 3rd.
There's no exporting audio from her - no audio in to effect nor audio thru...
She is a different girl and a keeper. Better?
You won't convince me.
If the ES2 doesnt work for you its best to sell and move on. But if you are going to compare its weaknesses I think you need to be fairer.
Long time users of the ES2 dont need to be reminded of its weaknesses - we live with them every day.
Since you ask though:
1). Sampling as a chore - I find the sample editing screen annoying. I'm fine with editing by samples rather than a waveform but it's nowhere NEAR as fast or intuitive as on the 404. That has a brilliantly musical way of working.
2). Circuit - yes I've used the web editor to send sample packs and I think it's excellent. It's a sample player, rather than a sampler and I'm fine with that. It doesn't pretend to be a 16 channel MIDI sequencer so I can understand the lack of Thru (though I wouldn't be unhappy if they included it!).
It's all personal preference at the end of the day. For me, I'd like the Electribe to be the heart of a hardware setup. It seems to offer the features that would make this logical, but doesn't quite get there for me.
I'm intrigued though - what do you use it AND the 404 for? How to they both work together for you?
Anyway, I'm thinking now to maybe not sell so fast. I think I'll take the Electribe out my setup and see if I miss it first...