ATTENTION KORG!!

[aron]

None of these manufactures listen to the average keyboard guy playing in dive bars or bedrooms

Obviously you never worked in the MI.

[Jer76]

You guys certainly like to ridicule the super knob that is one thing the Kronos does not have. An endless, high quality controller that can be mapped to many different parameters simultaneously.

You can do similar things with the Kronos, minus the annoying beeping light of that gadget knob.

I just bought the Montage to accompany the Kronos, you can turn off the beeping light of the superknob.

[jimknopf]

In the workstaion selling rankings of the biggest European reseller Thomann the actual 4 Kronos versions (88,73,61 and LE) cover ranks 2-5 (with only the 3x cheaper Roland FA06 ranked higher).
The Yamaha Montage isn't even in the top 10, with the Montage 8 on rank 12.

And this means comparing a synth nearly 6 years on the market, though with improved OS (Kronos 88 ) on rank 2 with Yamaha's actual flagship on rank 12.

The reason is simple:
Though you can get some really nice sounds from a Montage, and the contoller possibilities may offer slightly more (and more easy to access) possibilities than the Kronos (a Kronos can essentially do much of what the Montage offers there as well), that's about it on the positive side.

Else you buy LOTS of idiotic limitations with each Montage:
- the crappiest Midi implementation seen in decades, successfully more or less isolating the Montage from a full connect with the rest of your equipment.
- no proper sampling features
- much too small room for additional samples/sounds
- only sampled sounds and FM on board
- no proper B3 sounds from a B3 engine
- no proper VA sounds
- no midi/audio sequencer for eventual backing and idea sketching tasks
- quite limited new soundpool compared to the Motif: MUCH overlap instead
just to name the most important issues.

Bottom line: The Montage is THE VERY LAST concept which Korg should look at for improvements. It's a crappy transitional concept which will soon be forgotten (like the at first much hyped Roland JP80 ranked 76 in the Thomann synth selling ranks meanwhile)

And most of the "improvements" proposed here are none I want: it's either wasting much too much money, like the endless encoders which help making the price-value relation of the heavily overpriced Montage plain stupid compared with a Kronos (from which you get about double the sound flexibility and functionality of a Montage at the same price), or something I have no priority use for. For example dedicated ADSR controllers are prinicipally fine, but wouldn't fit too well into the economic multi-purpose controller surface, offering the most important controller access for different purposes.

I use the Kronos nearly six years now, and simply like it as it is for the most part. The only two things I would urgently like to see improved are
- better overdrive effects
- finally an editor/plugin worth using and (of course!) in 64bit.

I also agree that the factory sound set could be much more ready-for-gigging than it has been so far: still too many sounds there just toying around without being relevant for practical use. This is something which Yamaha definitely does better: delevering a factory set with enough sounds more or less ready for direct use. On the Kronos, you have to do more tweaking, but since I like to do that anyways, I don't care too much.

[Derek Cook]

When the original YAMAHA MOTIF came out, i saw em everywhere.
Concerts, music guest's on talk shows, other media, everywhere.
With the exception of utube, i havent even seen one MONTAGE on any tv media, or concerts, or artist's using them anywhere.
MONTAGE should be only half the price YAMAHA is asking.
I love YAMAHA synths, (haveMX49) but i bet if you could get access to MONTAGE sales figures, one would find out
not many units were sold.

Rick Wakeman had a Montage in his ARW rig but he also had two Kronos boards.

[chini]

Or perhaps you need a Montage? There's never one board that does it all - they could build one - and kill their business. I'm pretty sure all the Directors of the major manufacturers meet up for golf and Corvoisier and debate who's doing what with what so that they all get a slice of the market. Sceptical maybe - but I've seen it in other 'rival' industries, it helps them all to make money without any one manufacturer ending up in a position where demand can't meet supply and goodbye reputation - there's just too much of a 'balance' between them all to be coincidence and not by design I think.

And when you say 'cheaper' I say "You get what you pay for" - that's from the perspective as an electronics design engineer - it's all relative. You gain this, you lose something else.

Intuitive response!

[GregC]

There's never one board that does it all - they could build one - and kill their business. I'm pretty sure all the Directors of the major manufacturers meet up for golf and Corvoisier and debate who's doing what with what so that they all get a slice of the market. Sceptical maybe - but I've seen it in other 'rival' industries, it helps them all to make money without any one manufacturer ending up in a position where demand can't meet supply and goodbye reputation - there's just too much of a 'balance' between them all to be coincidence and not by design I think.

I can only dream of playing golf with high rollers and drinking Corvoisie. Sounds like you were there ? Tell us more stories of market manipulation and secret meetings and plots behind closed doors . My little job is boring with no booze or any get rich mastermind schemes.

ThankS !

[danmusician]

It's completely ridiculous to say that Korg doesn't listen to its customers. Compare OS 1 to the most recent OS and you'll find a bunch of features that were added that can be traced almost directly back to discussions on this forum.

Obviously, everyone is still entitled to their own wishlist and also obviously, Korg can't implement each and every one on there. Even apart from economic reasons, even in this thread some wishes are diametrically opposed to another.

+1

Just because a manufacturer doesn't implement what you want doesn't mean that they didn't listen. And certainly, they are unlikely to explain to you WHY they didn't implement it. A machine as complex as the Kronos contains many, many design compromises along the way. Implementing choice 2 can mean eliminating choice 1. Ultimately, the product needs to meet the needs of as many people as possible who have the funds and desire to purchase it.

There are a lot of times when these threads appear that I get the feeling that some folks think the designers at Korg just sit around and say to themselves, "A customer had this really cool idea for a feature, but we don't want to listen to them. Let's not included it, that'll really piss them off!"

[Devnor]

Nobody knows if these creative ideas on this forum went into OS development or it part of their existing roadmap or they came from pro players like Jordan Rudess, ect.

The common narrative in this space is XYZ company doesn't listen to their customers, ABC company is forcing things down players throats yet Korg is intently listening to every Tom, Dick & Harry with internet access.

What is interesting and equally annoying is when someone suggests adding a feature from a different brand and we end up with these knee jerk reactions, sarcastic comments and rants. I think eventually there will be endless encoders and LED indicators added to the next gen Korg. When that happens, those new features will celebrated by all.

[jimknopf]

When that happens, those new features will celebrated by all.

Certainly not, because most people don't celebrate unnecessary price boosts. I for one don't want to pay a much higher price for something I don't really need on my Kronos, and that won't change in the future, as long as these encoder prices don't come down sigificantly. Simple as that. Yamaha had better spent some money on development control, not allowing to spoil the midi functionality of the Montage. That would be TONS more useful than fancy encoders.

It's also irrelevant if Korg actually listened to their pro users, or had some own ideas, or Dan (and at that time Rich as well) welcomed some thoughts circulating in this vivid forum: probably it was some of all. Half a dozen updates for the Kronos have really been delivering the goods - with a big overlap between user wishes and actual development.

And this simple fact (and not speculations concerning who listend to whom when and why) makes a big difference towards anything I have seen from Yamaha or Roland in those years.

[GregC]

I think its good that Kronos owners are enthusiastic and want to see A, B, C or D, etc, etc

What I notice here are lots of suggestions but no one ( or few) seem to state how much more or additional they would pay for what they want.

when I am serious about wanting some kind of product, I put a price or estimate on it. I don't believe ( or I don't recall) its realistic for a co like Korg to add something fairly significant and not charge for it.

I also believe price for a keyboard ( or an amp, guitar, a car ) is king. KING.

Cos like Korg are unlikely to offer a Keyboard for $4500 (US) when there are other close choices at $3500 . To stay competitive , a co has to keep its costs down and remain price competitive. This shouldn't be a surprise and I think its good to see this as what it is, its a global ( and complex) business.

I also believe Korg knows exactly what its doing and everything is planned out as best as possible. Korg has several outstanding musicians as employees. I suspect they know potential features inside out and know of more possibilities than we can think of.

If anything, I hope Korg does not do a " Montage " and remove the SEQ and remove stand midi and then ask $4000 or $4500 . Thats a board and price I have ZERO interest in.

[swarupmahapatra]

Nobody knows if these creative ideas on this forum went into OS development or it part of their existing roadmap or they came from pro players like Jordan Rudess, ect.

The common narrative in this space is XYZ company doesn't listen to their customers, ABC company is forcing things down players throats yet Korg is intently listening to every Tom, Dick & Harry with internet access.

What is interesting and equally annoying is when someone suggests adding a feature from a different brand and we end up with these knee jerk reactions, sarcastic comments and rants. I think eventually there will be endless encoders and LED indicators added to the next gen Korg. When that happens, those new features will celebrated by all.

+1

I don't really understand why so many people are against Endless LED encoders and LED sliders. Those things have become cheaper now a days in comparison to past years.

We gigging musicians definitely need better out of the box sounds and effects. Even Qui Robinez uses an Eventide H9 Max for better effects on top of Kronos.

The menu driven functions are good but I don't have time to tweak some basic parameters while I am live on stage. Some dedicated knobs like ADSR will of course help a lot.

And who won't benefit from a lighter weight, sturdier board with better visibility LCD panel?

[jerrythek]

The menu driven functions are good but I don't have time to tweak some basic parameters while I am live on stage. Some dedicated knobs like ADSR will of course help a lot.

When the control surface is set to RT Knob 4 gives you release already.

With the surface set to Tone Adjust the silders are already mapped to Filter ADSR and Amp ADSR. Very convenient once you get familiar with that.

Jerry

[zolhof]

Kronos has pretty much killed my gearlust for other keyboards. As a gigging musician, the possibility of streaming user samples from the SSD was a big game changer to my workflow.

The one big improvement I'd like to see (and would gladly throw money at) is more moar moooaaar oscillators and DNC (dynamic nuance control, i.e. articulations) from the PA series... these combined with sample streaming would make HD-1 the rompler to end all romplers.

Faster boot time wouldn't hurt either.

[KK]

The menu driven functions are good but I don't have time to tweak some basic parameters while I am live on stage. Some dedicated knobs like ADSR will of course help a lot.

With the surface set to Tone Adjust the silders are already mapped to Filter ADSR and Amp ADSR. Very convenient once you get familiar with that.

Jerry

Hi Jerrythek,

I mentioned similar advice as well earlier to the OP but of course, some people prefer complaining instead of working on solutions.

[tand]

Kronos has pretty much killed my gearlust for other keyboards. As a gigging musician, the possibility of streaming user samples from the SSD was a big game changer to my workflow.

The one big improvement I'd like to see (and would gladly throw money at) is more moar moooaaar oscillators and DNC (dynamic nuance control, i.e. articulations) from the PA series... these combined with sample streaming would make HD-1 the rompler to end all romplers.

Faster boot time wouldn't hurt either.

+1

Anyway, I don't care about the boot time, of course the faster the better, but that doesn't bugs me.

SSD stream is indeed the game changer and most people don't realize that.