PA4X and (Kronos or montage)?

songbird · Post by **songbird** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:17 pm

Hello All,
I have a PA4X. I recently sold my Motif just because I was offered the same price as I purchased it(I purchased a pre owned).
Now I have the option to buy either a Montage6 or Kronos 2. which is a better choice ? my main purpose for the additional board is for more sounds and arps, so that I can put some songs together with the 4X.
Any of you have very strong opinion one way or the other?
Please advise
regards.

kbrkr · Post by **kbrkr** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:55 pm

That's a tough choice. I have both the Pa4x and the Kronos 2, but use them very differently when I perform. One as a solo instrument and the other as a band instrument.

With that said, the Montage would give you a very different sound set and would be a nice compliment. I myself are looking for a lighter keyboard and decided to get a Nord Stage 3 Compact. At 22lbs, it is very light, has outstanding Pianos, Organs, and Synth. It also offers a very different sound to complement my other two keyboards. For the stage, it has amazing ergonomics and control surfaces.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:34 am

Yes - a tough choice indeed.
I cannot comment on Montage as I have neither played or seen one but, if I lost all my music gear, I would only be seriously bothered replacing my PA4X and Kronos.

Some of the things I do with mine plus other comments:-

Record with both
Use Kronos as my "UPPER 1" sound when playing styles.
Use Kronos "Karma" instead of PA4X styles for a few songs.
Use both sequencers (both are great!!!)
Primarily use my Kronos as my "B3/Leslie" (CX3 engine)
I LOVE Karma - I have owned the original Korg Karma, M3 and now Kronos - can't live without it.
Additional Kronos libraries are world class e.g. Sharp's collection, KApro, Qui Robinex etc....
The 2 keyboards do not overlap much in terms of features and many sounds.

My wishes:
Korg produce a Kronos-76 semi-weighted
Everything else is fantastic.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Kronos but in fairness can't comment on Montage.
Also I have never been a big fan of arpeggiators although my Jupiter-80 changed my mind a little regarding that.

Re Nord:- My friend who plays in my band has 2 Nord Stage 2s so I get to have a bash on them regularly - they have amazing sounds BUT I dislike most of their "other" sounds - i.e. other then organ and e-pianos.
I find Nord library sounds very "basic" and any many cases unusable for me (e.g. strings) BUT for e-pianos and organ Nord really rocks - fabulous performance control surface too.
I still prefer Korg's acoustic pianos but that's all very subjective, I know.

All just my personal views but hope it helps a bit....

Cheers

Pete

D575 · Post by **D575** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:42 am

I use the PA4X and the montage together and very happy... all down to personal choice, moving up from Yamaha mox/f to the montage has left me with no regrets

Bernie9 · Post by **Bernie9** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:13 pm

I do solo and band gigs using my Pa4X. Having never had either the Kronus or Mantage, I am wondering if there is an advantage to be gained in the area of "combi's". I play in a senior band sometimes where there may be five or fifteen show up. This means I have to lead in whatever section is missing. I have a set list covering the basic now, but always looking for better.

Bernie

songbird · Post by **songbird** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:45 pm

kbrkr wrote:That's a tough choice. I have both the Pa4x and the Kronos 2, but use them very differently when I perform. One as a solo instrument and the other as a band instrument.

With that said, the Montage would give you a very different sound set and would be a nice compliment. I myself are looking for a lighter keyboard and decided to get a Nord Stage 3 Compact. At 22lbs, it is very light, has outstanding Pianos, Organs, and Synth. It also offers a very different sound to complement my other two keyboards. For the stage, it has amazing ergonomics and control surfaces.

Thank you for sharing your thought. Do you feel that lot of the sounds are duplicated on both the devices(do common voices sounds similar)?

songbird · Post by **songbird** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:58 pm

karmathanever wrote:Yes - a tough choice indeed.
I cannot comment on Montage as I have neither played or seen one but, if I lost all my music gear, I would only be seriously bothered replacing my PA4X and Kronos.

Some of the things I do with mine plus other comments:-

Record with both
Use Kronos as my "UPPER 1" sound when playing styles.
Use Kronos "Karma" instead of PA4X styles for a few songs.
Use both sequencers (both are great!!!)......
.......

Thank you Pete for the detailed thought. really appreciate it.
I have the 76 key 4X, so trying to add a 61key board for reduced size.
I don't know if I am crazy in that I try to connect both boards via MIDI and record in one or the other. in the motif/PA4X case I used to record in Motif. Never tried to make 4X as the base

. I wish I did, so that I could make a decision easily now. any way...

any of you use a 4X as the base sequencer and MIDI in from an external board to 4x to put songs together?
I know montage doesn't have a full sequencer. But if I can easily get 4X to record both devices, that may not be a big issue. Trying to avoid hooking up a computer all the time . Otherwise I have to find an iPad workflow.
OR, if I get the kronos, I could stick with the old workflow...
its a hard decision ! any help or thought is appreciated.

songbird · Post by **songbird** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:01 pm

D575 wrote:I use the PA4X and the montage together and very happy... all down to personal choice, moving up from Yamaha mox/f to the montage has left me with no regrets

Thank you for sharing your thought... you have the set up I am considering
Have you ever tried to sequence in 4X with montage Midi in to 4X? if not, could you please give it a try and let me know if that is an easier path or is it a pain?
thanks in advance,

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:18 pm

In terms of recording, I recently needed to play Kronos and PA4x for a new track on a CD I am making.

I connected the Kronos Audio OUT to the PA4X Audio IN and recorded the whole thing on PA4X using its MP3 recorder feature.

Yes, OK MP3 is not the nicest quality but it did work well - PA4X highest MP3 quality is quite acceptable.
My final result I repeated the song and recorded onto my Boss recording desk and hence ended with WAV quality for the CD.

You can connect the other way around and play PA4X and record it using the Kronos audio sequencer etc..etc.. or record MIDI instead
Yep it can get a bit wild but there are several options to try with PA4X and Kronos.

Cheers

Pete

D575 · Post by **D575** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:00 pm

songbird wrote:
D575 wrote:I use the PA4X and the montage together and very happy... all down to personal choice, moving up from Yamaha mox/f to the montage has left me with no regrets
Thank you for sharing your thought... you have the set up I am considering
Have you ever tried to sequence in 4X with montage Midi in to 4X? if not, could you please give it a try and let me know if that is an easier path or is it a pain?
thanks in advance,

I am probably not best placed to answer this question for you as I'm very much a real time player so style play mode is where you will find me here with the PA4X, perhaps if you take your PA4X to a montage dealer and check this out for your self this could be better for you + I recommend you spend some time with the montage as you will find things are different to your previous motif, also if you have not all ready checked out the official Yamaha forum for the montage then this may help greatly in your research, for me when I midi together montage with the PA4x I can be in either a single or multi midi mode on the montage depending on what i am doing when using the PA4X as the master keyboard, so the two midi mode's available in montage are (A) midi multi mode - multiple matching corresponding midi (channels) parts to the pa4x midi (channels) parts, and (B) single midi mode in the montage - 8 real time midi (channels) parts of the montage assigned to a single designated midi (channel) part on the PA4X, and what is also interesting you can use the ensemble feature of the pa4x with the sounds of the montage which would be applicable to any other keyboard you are running in this configuration as well, because the PA4X keybed is so much better than the montage In every way if i choose to play just the montage on its own I still do so with midi on the PA4X but with out the PA4X sounding + something else to mention I am in the process of getting set up with these two keyboards for some live work which is going to be a much lighter rig compared to my small home studio the live rig will be 2 Keyboards, 1 small mixer, and a PA, now knowing a studio sound and live sound are different animal's but still missing my studio outboards I now run the PA4X outputs including the maxxaudio of the PA4X through the montage A/D inputs then i use the fx, EQ, etc to great effect like i would with my studio outboards to add some final sound shaping then output the new PA4X processed sound out of the montage to the mixer this breaths some new life in to the mix and works very well if you spend some time with this with out over doing things (some very nice multi compressors etc in there) ....just something to consider when experimenting and maybe to try if you find a demo montage when connecting with midi to the PA4X, not quite the answers you where looking for but a little insight with what I am doing with these two keyboards so the montage is mainly complimenting my PA4X, which (pa4x) is generally my main keyboard..hope that helped a little

D575 · Post by **D575** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:40 am

And .....dont forget to use the midi filters accordingly in the PA4X when you connect these two keyboards together with midi (Or any other keys)

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:10 pm

Both would add a considerable chunck to the pa4x...

I use my Kronos for the typical keyboard sounds piano, e-piano, clavs, strings, organ... in almost all these cases...i prefer the kronos sound... where the difference is even larger is the synth selection, thats where Kronos is huge..

But there is also the woodwinds, saxes, brass and some other things, thats where i prefer the Montage, but then, its the voices i really like on my pa4x.. so you allready got that covered..

Then there is Karma vs Yamaha arps and motion sequencer... i think where it comes to functionality and possibilities, kronos is still leading. Where yamaha shines is the easy accesibility and user interface... not just where it comes to arps, but the whole interface with lights along the decoders and sliders is quite well tought out.. Kronos takes certainly a lot more time to get around with... but as soon as you do... you have your dream machine..

On top of the Montage the Kronos is a fullfledged workstation that boosts your creativity, not only the sequencer and the 9 synth engines, but also features like rppr, wave sequncing add a lot of more depth to the kronos..

Another thing you might like about the kronos is the used market... i recently bought a seccond Kronos 88 (orriginal 5 year old model) for €1400. No way Montage can ever beat that... when buying montage, you almost need to buy new... which is a huge price difference...

songbird · Post by **songbird** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Thank you all for all the help!
I spent couple of hours in a nearby guitar center over the weekend, trying both Kronos and Montage.
I ended up with the Montage. I liked the direct button access and ease of use for various things I use in general. Felt the Montage to be easier for my usage.
Also, felt that since I already have the PA4X, a different sound set will be more complementing to the setup.
Once again thanks a lot for all the help! Your suggestions helped me form the final decision.
I also got a great deal for the keyboard from them, that I could not refuse

D575 · Post by **D575** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:23 pm

songbird wrote:Thank you all for all the help!
I spent couple of hours in a nearby guitar center over the weekend, trying both Kronos and Montage.
I ended up with the Montage. I liked the direct button access and ease of use for various things I use in general. Felt the Montage to be easier for my usage.
Also, felt that since I already have the PA4X, a different sound set will be more complementing to the setup.
Once again thanks a lot for all the help! Your suggestions helped me form the final decision.
I also got a great deal for the keyboard from them, that I could not refuse

Good news glad you are happy and like all things once you go through the learning curve I'm sure you will love using these two keyboards together as i do, the audio fidelity of the montage is very good indeed out of the box (Quote: "Pure Analog Circuit: MONTAGE features professional balanced outputs with “Pure Analog Circuit” (PAC). PAC improves the quality of signal after being converted to analog from digital for clear harmonic reproduction and even frequency response. The result is an output capable of reproducing MONTAGE’s internal content expressively with power and clarity") so some work with the PA4X MaxxAudio is needed (if you are not all ready there with that) to make them both sound like they are coming from the same place ...enjoy

D575 · Post by **D575** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:22 am

One other thing to mention your old Motif did not have balanced outputs where your PA4X and now your Montage both do, so good practice to use balanced cable's if you are not doing so because previously the motif would not require this....worth a mention if you are not aware of this ...