midi snyc latency issue

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:51 pm

when i set up Kronos 2 to play back 1 track of midi data, or 1 track to record midi data, there is slippage. anybody know why?

Before you start saying my daw I should tell you that my yamaha motif, akai s5000, korg triton, alesis sr16, roland xp80 and roland fantom do not suffer this problem. this is a Kronos issue....

ill step back and listen

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:46 am

apparently you guys dont know anything about daws....figures.

pete.m · Post by **pete.m** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:21 am

Well, I certainly don't know anything about DAWs. I don't want to, either - I spend enough time staring at screens away from making music, and anyway I'm just not interested in doing it that way. But you are wrong to say that nobody on the forum knows anything about working with DAWs and, with respect, it might have helped if you had specified the type of DAW you work with. Every system has its quirks and bugs, and your problem might relate to one of those.

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:26 am

Im pretty ninja on my daw and all things recording. I should have asked a diff way....all i know is my other devices do not slip like kronos does.
No need for special offsets.
Will run an experiment later today and test the usb midi.
Seems like all the latest gear doesnt play nice with good ol regular midi ports.

What i wanted to know was if anyone else experienced this....ill figure out the solution...i always do.

pete.m · Post by **pete.m** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:53 pm

I agree with you - I think it's crazy that users still suffer MIDI-related issues, 35 years or so after it began to be more widely used. You shouldn't have the hassle that you're having.

The reason I was suggesting that you specify your DAW is because there have been a lot of postings on the forum down the years about strange problems with many different DAWs interfacing with the Kronos. As you say, it may be that someone has experienced the thing that you're dealing with, but it will only ring a bell with them if they know which system you're using. Best of luck - hope you get it sorted, one way or another!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:58 pm

You're certainly humble in asking for advice. Never mind that some of us here are professional producers, we must not know anything about DAWs just because we didn't instantly reply to your (rather vague) question.

When you say you set up the Kronos to play back or record MIDI data, how do you mean that? Are you using the Kronos as a sound module or are you syncing the sequencer to your DAW? And what "slippage" do you mean exactly? Is the Kronos audio slightly late compared to your VSTs, or is the timing inconsistent? What exactly is happening and how have you hooked up your stuff?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:04 pm

MusicianSickness wrote:apparently you guys dont know anything about daws....figures.

yes, thats correct, I don't.

But I can google.

Try this

Global menu of the Kronos.
Global P1 midi/.midi Routing Setup/Start/Stop (Realtime) Out.

There is checkbox. try checking it.

If thats the answer, Save Global

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:07 pm

i used kronos to play back midi data 1 track at a time. I also used it to record midi data onto a midi track. The daw is Sonar Platinum, the midi interface is a midisport 8in 8out.
I have done this with other keyboards with absolutely no issues.
I just started using Kronos for this purpose after having her for going on a year. The sonic of the kronos is superior to my older synths, (motif i horrible)
so basicaly im sequencing with Sonar, and using Kronos as a hardware sound source. when i record her audio while she is playing midi data, the timing is off by milliseconds every time. Have dug in the global page to mess with settings and nothing cures it, like i said im pretty sharp at this stuff, been doing midi since 1990.
Anyhow when i find solution i shall let you guys know, hopefully it helps someone down the road

*edit*
im not using sequencer in kronos. just straight out of program mode for playback on ch 1,,,,1 track at a time to keep the richness of the program

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:15 pm

found this post on google...
https://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20543

exactly whats happening to me

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:28 am

I use Sonar as well but have never noticed this issue. I hardly ever record my hardware synths though, and I don't think I've ever played a midi part to the Kronos to record its audio. Is this always or only when using KARMA/DT?
Have you tried using the Kronos USB midi driver? Is there any difference?

As for offsets, they may be your best bet if the latency is consistent. It seems a pretty high number though. Just a thought, but do you have any Roland synths with "active sensing" hooked up? They tend to mess with some devices. You could also try filtering out all non-essential midi data in the global menu to see if there's a difference.

amit · Post by **amit** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:40 am

I am fairly well versed with midi (programming).

1: Are you noting dropped events or timing issues?
2: is the issue evident in the midi data or the audio output? could be latency issue or polyphony (unlikely, but possible, with hung (sustained notes) eating that up quickly).
3: how about also setting kronos to slave to midi clock from sonar, if its not already?

4: I think Kronos is up to 480 tpqn resoultion, see if changing/reducing that in sonar helps.

5: Try changing the convert position from Pre mdi to post midi and see if that helps incase it's some midi pre-processor introducing the lag
6: Maybe save the sonar song as a midi file (SMF). and share it so we can test it out here likely with a click and Other DAW and acertain if i's indeed a bug.
6: It might have to with some latency compenstation, but cannot put a finger on it unless tested.

CharlesFerraro · Post by **CharlesFerraro** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:26 pm

Funny enough I recently ran into this same problem in Cubase. I'll figure out a fix in a few weeks when I have time to focus on the issue. As of right now I'm thinking the solution is to simply delay all other tracks by the amount that the MIDI is lagging.

MusicianSickness · Post by **MusicianSickness** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:51 pm

hey charles....finalllyyyy. I just really wanted to confirm if anybody else was experiencing this too. I too will find a solution as I am a Midi God (lol)
I use an actual midi connection, gonna see is usb midi makes a diff.
I know its a Kronos issue because my other hardware synths and drum machines perform flawlessly with the same I/O box and midi cables...

Amit, if you would like i can send you the SMF....thats exactly what im using to trigger all my hardware....standard procedure for me.
send an email address

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:17 am

I've seen Roland "active sensing" throw stuff off too, as a test it might be worth seeing if the same problem persists with the other stuff unplugged/turned off. And of course as a workaround it's easy enough to nudge the audio left or program an offset. Weird though, I agree.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:16 am

I'm having a little difficulty understanding what the issue is you're having, but as I understand it relates to poor timing when sequencing the Kronos from Cubase using a MidiSport interface?

One thing to keep in mind is that the Kronos uses Sysex quite heavily and can very easily transmit large amounts of MIDI data that can swamp the limited bandwidth of regular DIN MIDI. Also, not all "intelligent" MIDI interfaces handle Sysex particularly well.

I use the DIN MIDI ports on the Kronos to sequence other hardware without issue, but if I was sequencing the Kronos from a computer I would definitely use the USB port.

Also, Windows generally can be a pain when it comes to MIDI...