Trying to recreate B3 for live playing questions

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:29 am

Hi there all you big organ fans! Jeremykeys here trying another experiment. I'm wondering if this can be done and will work.

So far all I've done is a very basic experiment using 2 progs and a combi.
What I've done is to copy 2 different organ sounds onto the first to channels of the combi. I didn't copy any of the IFX, TFX or MFX from the second prog but I routed the second one through the IFX of the first channel.
With me so far?
I've got all the faders up full and from the control surface I can see that by having the Timbre 1 through 8 page I can turn each individual channel on and off with the mix/play mute buttons.
This way I can easily switch organ presets similarly to using the reverse colour keys at the left hand of a Hammond. The only thing is you have to press the button twice although if you want you can press to adjacent buttons if one if off and the other is on.
Of course the downfall of this is that you are limited to whatever you have in the IFX because ALl of your organ patches are going to be urn through that set.
Having said that though, it has occured to me that you could, say have your first 4 or so patches routed through the first set of IFX and the next 4 through a different IFX routing.

My question is this: Has anybody else experimented with trying to duplicate the "feel" of a Hammond in this way and if so, have you got any better solutions or ideas?

Thanks in advance once again!

Jeremykeys the Mad, and I do mean Mad; Scientist! Mwoo hahaha!

geoelectro · Post by **geoelectro** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:33 am

I am a Hammond Organ tech and have played them for decades. I play my Kronos at church. When I am in “Hammond mode”, I don’t use any presets, I just use the “drawbars” live, like I would on a real Hammond. SW 1 and SW 2 are for percussion and vibrato on and off.

I run it mostly dry other than some EQ to a Ventilator, then back into the audio ins. I like your idea though.

Also a madd scientist...
Geo
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/ ... e=personal

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm

I do almost the same thing as the previous poster. I have 6 basic set ups: 2nd and 3rd harmonic percussion, clean and dirty amps and vibrato/chorus types. I also use a second rotary speaker in the insert FX (this method was posted a few years ago by someone else on the forum) it adds a lot to to the rotary speaker effect. Then I use the drawbars live with SW1 for vibrato/chorus and SW2 for percussion. I perform a lot and play organ about 33% of the time. This works very well, and with your own personal taste applied, should be good enough to not warrant a second keyboard (organ) on stage.

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:21 pm

I do almost the same thing as the previous poster. I have 6 basic set ups: 2nd and 3rd harmonic percussion, clean and dirty amps and vibrato/chorus types. I also use a second rotary speaker in the insert FX (this method was posted a few years ago by someone else on the forum) it adds a lot to to the rotary speaker effect. Then I use the drawbars live with SW1 for vibrato/chorus and SW2 for percussion. I perform a lot and play organ about 33% of the time. This works very well, and with your own personal taste applied, should be good enough to not warrant a second keyboard (organ) on stage.

gnbutt · Post by **gnbutt** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:32 pm

Hello Jeremy !, I was luckily enough to own a Hammond B3 and Leslie 122, then a Leslie Pro 900 for over 25 years. I do not own a Kronos and my Krome does not have any drawbars, it certainly will never replicate a Hammond B3 and Leslie. After really missing my B3, I bought a Hammond SK2 from Long & McQuade and a mini-vent for organ too. What a keyboard it is, but over $4K spent too CDN. If you are happy with your settings, that's what counts. I still maintain that there is nothing like that authentic rotating speaker cabinet and a B3, many new keyboards are getting really close sound wise, its getting hard to tell the difference these days. The Hammond B3 was a pretty awesome looking unit on the stage too ! Graydon

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 pm

I agree with the previous poster regarding comparing a real B3 and Leslie to anything else. I had a C3 and a 122 for many years. But now that I am having to transport my own equipment, that is out of the question. A Kronos (and probably a few other synths) when programmed/tweaked properly sounds so close to a miced B3 and a Leslie through a proper sound system with the rest of the band playing, that the difference is, for all practical purposes, unnoticeable.

gnbutt · Post by **gnbutt** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Rick Wakeman who I recently saw live in Toronto last month, used a Korg Kronos 2 for "Roundabout" a classic Yes anthem thick with rock organ, obviously he or a programmer was able to tune in or design a B3 Hammond sample with C3/V3 chorus, sure sounded fantastic to my ears. If I had my eyes closed, I probably could not have heard the difference. I am sure he must have been happy with it, the audience sure was.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:24 pm

Rick also usually has an SK on stage and one thing you need to watch with his rig is that just because he is playing a board, it doesn't mean that that board is making the sound.

I'm not saying that you didn't hear a Kronos, just ovbserving that you can never be sure with Rick

gnbutt · Post by **gnbutt** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:54 pm

That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play.

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm

There are a couple of youtube videos where he explains his keyboard set up in some detail for the ARW tour. It is worth watching. Easy to find, just search Rick Wakeman.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:30 am

gnbutt wrote:That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play.

Also, though, according to an interview, he has a lot of MIDI stuff going on. There's no way to be sure that, when he plays the Kronos "organ," you're not sometimes actually hearing the SK1. There was quite a point made of the fact that you can't tell what instrument is making a sound based on where his hands are.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:02 am

Scott wrote:
gnbutt wrote:That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play.
Also, though, according to an interview, he has a lot of MIDI stuff going on. There's no way to be sure that, when he plays the Kronos "organ," you're not sometimes actually hearing the SK1. There was quite a point made of the fact that you can't tell what instrument is making a sound based on where his hands are.

That was my point, after watching the same video a few months back.