New yamaha cp

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:06 pm

Seems with the cp73 and cp88 yamaha offers some strong competition for Nord and the korg grandstage..

https://youtu.be/w8s19V9Yjek

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:34 pm

As I said, Korg definitely has to update their EP engine and Fender/clean amp modeling and slight overdrive. Both Nord and Yamaha have significantly upgraded their EP sounds in the meantime, while Korg is sleeping, and not even one step ahead of where they have been 6-7 years ago, neither in the Kronos nor in the Grandstage. This is really getting a bit lame!

Looks like they have abandoned the existing Kronos project since two years now, without having anything new of that kind on offer or coming soon.

Instead the actual Korg management is completely stuck in their next Volca and Minilogue-variations: all really nice music toys with some nice functionality, but no serious multi-purpose tools on a serious level...

And the only thing which happened for the Prololgue within one year, was getting it in tune, as it should have been from the start. It seems that the present Korg management no longer understands the meaning of "flagship" keyboards, neither for workstations nor for analog synths, else they would show sigifincantly more activity around the Kronos and the Prologue and put more effort around them. The Prologue still has no VST-Plugin integrating it with DAWs, still just the librarian. And no video tutorials, no additional sound banks, really not much happening within the first year. This all is no way of showing that you are serious with your top gear!

Devnor · Post by **Devnor** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 am

Looks good and sounds great! The metal toggle switches just above the keyboard look out of place.

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:25 am

While I can understand the frustration with Korg and the lack of improvements/updates, I don't know that I can say Yamaha has significantly upgraded their EPs. They all seem to be variants of the Yamaha CP-1 Rhodes/Wurlies which came out prior to the Kronos. I own the Montage and my gut feeling is they just sampled a CP-1 (I also had a CP-1 at one point). The overall tone is very similar and they've been using a consistent naming throughout all these models. Also, it appears that with these new CPs, Yamaha has abandoned SCM. So if you enjoyed the pure linear timbre response you find in modeling (SCM, EP-1) that, apparently, is no longer the case. Whether it's a huge deal, I can't say.

Busch.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:13 pm

Busch, you know Yamaha's CP-range much better than I do. I still remember when I stumbled on the best Rhodes patches for the CP-1, done by you back then.

But whatever the sample content of the actual Yamaha CP-EP-sounds may be, they at least deliver some of the kind of more agressive and dynamic high range Rhodes, which I regard as one of the ESSENTIALS of the mid generation MkIs (~1974/75), in some useable way. It is so basic for any Rhodes soloing in band context, and for any expressive upper range touch in Rhodes use generally, that no Rhodes library can be called convincing without that. And of course actual quality Rhodes libraries from Scarbee, just like Spectrasonics, do deliver that, just like the latest updates for the Nord Stage 3 do in a more convincing way than they did before. Even the scaled down Scarbee iPad Rhodes within Korg Module is better at that than the Kronos EP engine meanwhile!

We both have been trying workarounds with the Kronos EP-engine, but the only substitute for a well working MkI stage sound (which the Kronos does not have at all) has been the mixture of Kronos upper range MkII and lower range suitcase EP engine sounds. And that simply sounds artificial, especially in the upper range, where the not convincing substitute is made worse by bad and completely outdated Kronos amp and overdrive modelling.

I swallowed all that and got by with the workarounds the first years, because I was sure Korg would notice and fix that in due time, and be aware, that this problem zone is just as essential, as the update for the first CX3 engine has been for any halfway proper B3 modelling.

I still love my Kronos in the 8th year of use, but I have ZERO understanding for the way the present Korg management lets it's OS catch dust since 3 1/2 years now, leaving these two basic problem zones (EP engine and amp modelling) halfbaked for the rest of the Kronos life cycle, while not even offering a worthy successor. If it is about money: I would pay a lot for a substantial OS upgrade, or a really well done Kronos successor.

Add that utterly substandard, really lousy editor staying in 32-bit yesterday land forever, and the very bad quality of Kronos E-Guitar sounds, also never adressed, and despite all the goodies which I won't forget, what once was a really outstanding flagship, is getting seriously outdated meanwhile. I heavily dislike, how the actual Korg managers are on Volca playground missions all the time, like a horde of little playful kids, instead of doing some urgently required serious job for the Kronos (or successor) and the Prologue "flagships". And after their months long uncommunicative Prologue tuning desaster, leaving paying customers alone completely, I am no longer in a forgiving mood for this kind of nonsense company behavior.

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Yamaha have done a great job with this stage piano, especially the hands-on interface gets a big applause from me.
I just wish they would also have added my favorite piano: Steinway.
As for KORG, I find it very disappointing to see the company stagnating while others move ahead.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:35 pm

Jan1 wrote:Yamaha have done a great job with this stage piano, especially the hands-on interface gets a big applause from me.
I just wish they would also have added my favorite piano: Steinway.
As for KORG, I find it very disappointing to see the company stagnating while others move ahead.

Well, yamaha realised the nord stage is popular for a reason

Yamaha’s policy is to only sample instruments they own.. so no steinway

Korg seems to have more interest in small time synths and stepped away from multi purpose keyboards development?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8s19V9Yjek

It also has a Boesendorfer piano, not just original Yamahas.

Some of the Yamaha Rhodes sounds in the CP73/88 definitely have the bite and bark in the upper range which I was mentioning, even if they aren't as detailed as they could be and should be. And the amp drive for the EP simply is in another class than that of the Kronos.

The Yamaha organ sounds are just as dreadful as ever though:
completely unuseable for my taste

I'm not not too impressed by other additional sounds as well.

So mixed feelings, especially looking at the price of ~2000 bucks for the 73 and the limited amount of useful sounds. But definitely a reminder of Korg's missing flagship development!

pink elefant · Post by **pink elefant** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:40 am

What I not understand is:
Korg has with the SV-1 the best and most wonderful vintage feel interface.
but their acoustic piano is to weak.
Then they brought out the Grandstage, with a poor Interface. It´s just no fun, if you have to look every time on which knob, wheel or encoder you find different fx ...etc. and the look ... terrible.
Is the reason that Korf Italy und Korg Japan just not work together?

Now we have the Yamaha CP, a mix from SV-1 and Nord, looks like a good compromise but not really sexy.

Will it sound like the Montage engine?
I hope I will find a dealer, where I can check Nord, the CP and the Crumar Seven side by side. And hopefully not with the frustrating result, that the real fun is only offered by software.

pink elefant · Post by **pink elefant** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:42 am

the real fun of course is to play a good restored rhodes or one of the wonderful vintage vibe pianos. But you know what I mean

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:56 pm

jimknopf wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8s19V9Yjek

It also has a Boesendorfer piano, not just original Yamahas.

Some of the Yamaha Rhodes sounds in the CP73/88 definitely have the bite and bark in the upper range which I was mentioning, even if they aren't as detailed as they could be and should be. And the amp drive for the EP simply is in another class than that of the Kronos.

The Yamaha organ sounds are just as dreadful as ever though:
completely unuseable for my taste I'm not not too impressed by other additional sounds as well.

So mixed feelings, especially looking at the price of ~2000 bucks for the 73 and the limited amount of useful sounds. But definitely a reminder of Korg's missing flagship development!

I've mixed thoughts on this too.

Love the look if it - stunning - even if based on the Nord Stage (that's a good thing IMO).

Acoustics and CP pianos seem amazing; but for that money I'd want one detailed model of both the Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer. I can't ever feel convinced by excellent presets of those instruments - it has to be a detailed, tweakable model in all the important ways for me.

They are expensive for what they offer. If they offered the type of 'ecosystem' that the Nord Stage offer I'd consider it - I am seriously considering a Nord Stage 88 and - and although very much like this, it does seem to be an amazing piece of hardware with a less than complete sound feature set.

None the less - I'm intrigued that Reface CP had evolved into this - so if Reface CS goes the same route - toward a CS88 - I'll be hooked !!

jerrythek · Post by **jerrythek** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:18 pm

jimknopf wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8s19V9Yjek

It also has a Boesendorfer piano, not just original Yamahas.

Yes, but Yamaha bought Bosendorfer a few years ago, so it still fits in their seeming policy.

Jerry

KalvinB · Post by **KalvinB** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:49 pm

Yamaha Europe's latest Music Production Guide has information on the new CP's. Here's a link:

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductio ... _01_EN.pdf

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:03 am

jerrythek wrote:
jimknopf wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8s19V9Yjek

It also has a Boesendorfer piano, not just original Yamahas.

Yes, but Yamaha bought Bosendorfer a few years ago, so it still fits in their seeming policy.

Jerry

Thanks for the info Jerry, I didn't know that.
And while I have you here: I still enjoy your Keyboardmag articles a lot, every time!

And I think that the Japanese Korg guys, who thought they would't need your experience, expertise and services working for Korg any longer, are a complete bunch of idiots (excuse my frank expression)!

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:45 am

KalvinB wrote:Yamaha Europe's latest Music Production Guide has information on the new CP's. Here's a link:

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductio ... _01_EN.pdf

Very interesting and thanks for the pointer.

Out of curiosity - what't the source website for that (to follow into the future).

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