Track volumes in Style Variations

[MikeMusik]

Hey guys,
Question for those who updated to 1.3.
When creating a style or even modifying an existing one, can you adjust volume level on each track on each variation / filll etc.?
As an example, in 1.21 and even before that on Pa4x, I could make it so that:

Var 1 has: Drums at 100, Bass at 90, Acc 1 at 80 where as
Var 2 has: Drums at 50, Bass 120, and Acc 1 at 70 (just an example).
This worked even for intros, fills, etc.

Now after 1.3, if I touch the volume bar at any point during style edit, then that track for all variations with that style will now have the same value which is frustrating. Maybe I’m doing something wrong? Thx in advance.

[Aripearlmusic]

No you can't do that on the 4x either. I believe you are look for the expression which is Menu-Element track control

[MikeMusik]

I’ve been without my 4x for a couple of years but i’m 99% sure I was doing that (outside of expression).

In any case, I was doing that in 1.21 and now it is gone unless there’s a workaround?

[BR]

I’ve been without my 4x for a couple of years but i’m 99% sure I was doing that (outside of expression).

In any case, I was doing that in 1.21 and now it is gone unless there’s a workaround?

I have Pa4X for years and use it every day and as Aripearlmusic mentioned, this is not possible in Style Mode.
You can however use/modify Expression for each Style Track and each Style Element in Style Edit mode.

Hope that helps.

[MikeMusik]

I guess my memory failed me here!

Then regardless of 4x, in the Pa5X OS1.21, this was easily doable.
Not sure why the change.

[adminrxb]

You can't do this as mentioned by Aripearlmusic. You will need to use expression.

[smstome]

I guess my memory failed me here!

Then regardless of 4x, in the Pa5X OS1.21, this was easily doable.
Not sure why the change.

You are right.

In this video, when he changes the variation the track volume level changes too.

https://youtu.be/4Wy3tAOLXoE?si=R8WNoW7aq2-u6qy3&t=573

[AntonySharmman]

Some advanced style editing require reading carefully advanced edit manual of PaSeries.

Older Pa users remember that a style has 2 mode of editing the easy mode in Style Play interface and advanced edit in
Record/Style edit , if you alter any instrument of a track for instance and you save style in Play mode you will override/loose all
deep editing parameters and all track's Var/Fill will play with the same instrument you will alter and with the same track level/volume.

Lets go to the correct editing of a style which is Record/Style Edit
If you Initialize a Style and try to create a new style you will see that all track elements are set to 100 level with the same instrument.
After you can edit all tracks and set in every track element different instruments and different levels that is the important request here.

Track volume in mixer just show the global track element value witch is 100 if not altered for all elements of track , if you alter this at
120 value then all elements Var/Fill will be increased to value 120 , so this is the wrong way to change volume per track's element.

The only way that you can have different volume levels per track element is to go to Menu > Element Track Controls > Expression page
(page 850 of manual) Expression settings are also set to 100 for all there , so select the track element you want to alter volume and
set it individually and proportionally to master track volume 100.
Smart Style creators never increase mixer master track volume over level 100 in order to have the option to increase expression to
127 for a specific track element since if set to 127 , an increase in expression from 100 to 127 would not work since 100 = 127 already.



Hope this helps

[smstome]

Hi Antony

I agree with everything that you said above.
In older PA series there is a square option button on screen for 'Original Style Sounds' which ignores the changes saved in style play mode.

But the question is how is it possible to alter the mixer levels different for individual variation. In the video we could see that the mixer volume level and expression level changes independently. I couldn't re create this in OS 1.3

[AntonySharmman]

But the question is how is it possible to alter the mixer levels different for individual variation. In the video we could see that the mixer volume
level and expression level changes independently. I couldn't re create this in OS 1.3

Nope , never mixer volume level and expression level changed independently , in older OS you could see only lever changes of Expression settings
that were not valid over 100 values.

This is how things are working in OS v1.3

- Mixer volume if fixed at any value per track that you will set either in Style Play nor in Style edit , and you can't see the changes you have altered
in Expression mode , but you can clearly listen to the difference !
That sounds reasonable to me since if master track volume is set to 127 and expression to also 127 then illustration is 154 and out of range and
this was not possible earlier if you had reached already 127 level.
This gives you the option to farther increase an already 127 track master volume , by setting expression to 127 at a track element.

- In older PaSeries , if you change parameters of any track elements in Style Play mode like changing a track instrument , then all Edit mode
parameters would be lost if you save style in Style mode.
Now you can edit there a standalone track and all other track's Style Edit parameters will remain untouched if you save Style in Style Play mode.

Therefore concerning question you can change volumes per track elements only at Menu > Element Track Controls > Expression page
where you can observe both master track and expression settings behavior playing solo track.



Hope this helps

[MikeMusik]

Hi Antony,

It's clear now that you can only control levels in track / expression.
However, in previous OS, you could change track volume level in Style Edit between variations. I've done it multiple times

The reason I liked this more than expression is because in a live situation, I'd rather have all expression at 100 and the volumes to be different so I can see exactly what's up and down. Personal preference.

[pa4x_user]

You can do this in a roundabout way on the Pa4X (I don't have a Pa5X so can't comment on that).

So... while you can't setup a style with different track volumes for each variation, you can set up a song-specific way to change the track volumes as you step through the song.

___________________________________________

METHOD: set up the Midi template in Global Settings so that the midi IN settings allow receipt of midi messages on the track channels. I am using the tablet template (p907 of Pa4x User Manual).

Using Songbook+ https://en.songbookplus.com/, embed Action Buttons as desired into the sheet music which will change the style variation and track volume as required. For example, to switch to Variation 3 with bass volume of only 25 you would have these actions -

Prog change CH16 Prog 85 (where 16 is the system channel)
Ctrl change Ch12* Ctrl 007 25 (*Channel number is illustrative, depends on how you set up your template)

Page 936 of the Pa4X user manual provides info' on program change data.

When you touch the Action Button on your tablet, Songbook+ changes the arranger settings using bluetooth via the Yamaha MD-BT01 MIDI Adaptor

________________

ADVANTAGES

Once you set up the Action Buttons, you don't have to think about it, and simply touch on the Button to make the change (eg at a verse). If you a better muso than me, and don't use sheet music, just set up a blank page in Songbook+ with a table of various Action Buttons that could be used 'generically'

DISADVANTAGES

(1) You need to use an Apple iPad for the Songbook+ app (but maybe other apps can be programmed similarly to change variation and acc. volumes).

(2) The midi adaptor uses the IN/Out ports on the arrange keyboard. If you need those to connect to other devices, might need a midi splitter

(3) The change in track volume is immediate, whereas the variation is probably going to be at the next measure

(4) If you make the volume change as described above, but then return to Variation 2, the original volume level is NOT restored. You would need a second Action Button to select Variation 2 and reset the track volume.

[smstome]

No you can't do that on the 4x either. I believe you are look for the expression which is Menu-Element track control

Volume Faders changes as variation changes irrespective of Expression Value.
Please see the Drum track volume and Acc 1 track volume.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jqUcyeCh4 ... AdraaIKlg1" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin"></iframe>

[MikeMusik]

Which OS are you using?